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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7013 Location: AZ
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Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:46 am Post subject: |
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Subtropical and Subpar wrote: | OldSchoolEuph wrote: | Subtropical and Subpar wrote: | Which Kanstul is a stencil of the 72? |
Kanstul 1503 and 1504 used the Kanstul 72 bell, as did several boutique stencils they built such as the AW Concert-460. The BAC Paseo Z72 also uses that bell.
It should be noted it is not a clone. In the same note to Zig in which he said "I don't know what the #7 bell is supposed to be" Byron emphasized several times that "our 72 bell" is consistently "much larger than Bach 72". Specifically, the transition between flare and stem is wider. |
Ah, thanks for that. I see from their still-intact website that the 1500 and 1500-A also both used the #7 bell. Very intriguing, as the 1500 bell was copper and the 1500-A bell was bronze, with a fairly chunky body. So many tonal possibilities! |
Kanstul also built the Flip Oakes Celebration, which had a #72 bell, #43 lead pipe and a .470" bore. Those that have one love it. The sound is huge and colorful, intonation is impeccable, response is amazing. _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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Subtropical and Subpar Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2020 Posts: 627 Location: Here and there
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Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 6:31 am Post subject: |
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shofarguy wrote: | Subtropical and Subpar wrote: | OldSchoolEuph wrote: | Subtropical and Subpar wrote: | Which Kanstul is a stencil of the 72? |
Kanstul 1503 and 1504 used the Kanstul 72 bell, as did several boutique stencils they built such as the AW Concert-460. The BAC Paseo Z72 also uses that bell.
It should be noted it is not a clone. In the same note to Zig in which he said "I don't know what the #7 bell is supposed to be" Byron emphasized several times that "our 72 bell" is consistently "much larger than Bach 72". Specifically, the transition between flare and stem is wider. |
Ah, thanks for that. I see from their still-intact website that the 1500 and 1500-A also both used the #7 bell. Very intriguing, as the 1500 bell was copper and the 1500-A bell was bronze, with a fairly chunky body. So many tonal possibilities! |
Kanstul also built the Flip Oakes Celebration, which had a #72 bell, #43 lead pipe and a .470" bore. Those that have one love it. The sound is huge and colorful, intonation is impeccable, response is amazing. |
It really is a shame that Kanstul went out of business, for so many reasons - the loss of Flip's sourcing, end of a long lineage of builders, they had a huge and varied product line of trumpets, cornets, and flugels. I have read, maybe here, that with Kanstul under and Getzen not building them anymore, there are now zero American tuba manufacturers. I have no idea if that's true or not, mind you.
I will say that there have been some screaming bargains on new / like new Kanstuls over the last year or so at the usual sellers and marketplaces, if that's any silver lining. _________________ 1932 King Silvertone cornet
1936 King Liberty No. 2 trumpet
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB trumpet
1965 Conn 38A
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel |
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Liberty Lips Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Dec 2003 Posts: 981
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Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:25 am Post subject: |
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Getzen makes two trumpets with their version of a 72 bell, the 3051 and the 3001 "Mike Vax" trumpet. Also, the Kanstul 1600 Wayne Bergeron model had a 72 bell with a modified 43 leadpipe.
I have a Kanstul 1504, which has a 72 bell and 43 leadpipe, and it's a truly wonderful horn. Flip Oakes "Celebration" was a large-bore version of that configuration. Apparently the 1503 and 1504 weren't big sellers, as they had been dropped from their lineup about 10 years ago, although they were always available by special order.
Another reason to lament the demise of Kanstul was their willingness to make custom horns to their customers' specifications. I don't understand why Bach (and Yamaha for that matter) are so unwilling to do that. |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2441
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Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 9:51 am Post subject: |
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Liberty Lips wrote: | Another reason to lament the demise of Kanstul was their willingness to make custom horns to their customers' specifications. I don't understand why Bach (and Yamaha for that matter) are so unwilling to do that. |
When last I was at the Bach plant, shortly before Tedd retired and communications admittedly became more challenging, there were quite a few blue tags moving through the shop. Yamaha on the other hand does not customize at the factory anymore (unlike when my horn was built), but offers that exclusively through the ateliers such as in New York https://www.yamaha.com/artists/artist-relations-newyork.html?CTID=5070154 _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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chef8489 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Posts: 858 Location: Johnson City Tn
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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Tim Cote over at osmun contacted Bach on my Behalf and they said they are willing to get it done for me. He said to let them know everything I want and they would see what all they can get done. Im trying to get a reverse lead pipe with a 43 pipe gold brass 72 bell and anniversary engraving done. Ill update everyone if it will be possible but they did say they would do a 72 for me in the 190 with a 43 pipe. _________________ Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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so what Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2004 Posts: 617 Location: near Dallas
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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chef8489 wrote: | Tim Cote over at osmun contacted Bach on my Behalf and they said they are willing to get it done for me. He said to let them know everything I want and they would see what all they can get done. Im trying to get a reverse lead pipe with a 43 pipe gold brass 72 bell and anniversary engraving done. Ill update everyone if it will be possible but they did say they would do a 72 for me in the 190 with a 43 pipe. |
Cool. Let us know how it works out, and let us know how you like it and how it meets your hopes and expectations. THat is one of things that makes TH so interesting. |
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chef8489 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Posts: 858 Location: Johnson City Tn
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Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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Wall I never heard back from Osmun after they were supposed to order the horn for me. I was talking to the guys over in Rich Ita shop after they finished my H.n. White cornet restoration about it because they had some 190s in their shop and I mentioned my ideal configuration and what happened with Osmun. Well to my delight they offered to step in and custom order the horn for me. So far the process has been a much more present experience through them. We have even talked about different bell engraving options. So far I think I am going to go with a 180s72 with a 43 leadpipe and a gold brass standard weight bell. 1st slide trigger and most likely either anniversary engraving or artesian engraving. I might go with a 3rd slide water key as well and double horn case.
I'll keep updating the thread as I go. Hopefully I'll get my dream Bb bach. _________________ Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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Jon Arnold Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2002 Posts: 2026
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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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Good luck to you and I hope it all works out. I am also curious about the new bach models coming out. |
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chef8489 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Posts: 858 Location: Johnson City Tn
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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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Jon Arnold wrote: | Good luck to you and I hope it all works out. I am also curious about the new bach models coming out. |
Well bach doesn't want to do a 190 with a 72 bell so we are talking to them about doing a 43 or a 37 with the trigger and 43 pipe then swapping out the bell at rich shop. _________________ Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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a.kemp Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Aug 2008 Posts: 678 Location: NYC
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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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Or, you can go ahead and get a Yamaha 8335LAII and not have to custom order a Bach. |
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chef8489 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Posts: 858 Location: Johnson City Tn
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Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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a.kemp wrote: | Or, you can go ahead and get a Yamaha 8335LAII and not have to custom order a Bach. |
That doesn't have a trigger so doesn't suit my needs and I never liked the Yamaha horns I tried out. I am wanting a 72 gold brass bell and 43 leadpipe with a 1st slide trigger. That horn doesn't really fit the bill. _________________ Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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NRampmaiermusic New Member
Joined: 10 May 2022 Posts: 5
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Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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chef8489 wrote: | a.kemp wrote: | Or, you can go ahead and get a Yamaha 8335LAII and not have to custom order a Bach. |
That doesn't have a trigger so doesn't suit my needs and I never liked the Yamaha horns I tried out. I am wanting a 72 gold brass bell and 43 leadpipe with a 1st slide trigger. That horn doesn't really fit the bill. |
I know another poster already commented this, but the Getzen 3001MV has their 72 bell and a more open lead pipe. Brett actually posted a thread about some sale rep horns he has for sale and has 2 of them on hand.
Ive played on one for quite a while now and l love it! _________________ Bach 19043B Bb
Getzen 3001MVS Bb
Bach C190SL229 C
Powell Custom Flugelhorn Copper bell
Kanstul 920 Bb/A Piccolo
Greg Black Mouthpieces w/ Stomvi Sleeves |
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chef8489 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Posts: 858 Location: Johnson City Tn
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Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2022 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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NRampmaiermusic wrote: | chef8489 wrote: | a.kemp wrote: | Or, you can go ahead and get a Yamaha 8335LAII and not have to custom order a Bach. |
That doesn't have a trigger so doesn't suit my needs and I never liked the Yamaha horns I tried out. I am wanting a 72 gold brass bell and 43 leadpipe with a 1st slide trigger. That horn doesn't really fit the bill. |
I know another poster already commented this, but the Getzen 3001MV has their 72 bell and a more open lead pipe. Brett actually posted a thread about some sale rep horns he has for sale and has 2 of them on hand.
Ive played on one for quite a while now and l love it! | the whole point to this is it has to have a factory trigger. I sold a bach that didn't have a trigger.. _________________ Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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kramergfy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Apr 2004 Posts: 992 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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I have an early Elkhart custom that I had Charlie Melk assemble. It is a standard weight body that started out as a 37 bell, 25 pipe. A while ago 8 struck gold and found an old raw brass 72* bell that was from this time period, with a side seam and steel wire rim. I had Charlie put this bell on the horn and change the pipe to a 43. It’s a killer horn for lead, or anything really. Tons of core, tons of sizzle and the upper register is open and free. _________________ "I'm 73 and I'm still learning." - Maurice Murphy
Thread killer. |
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chef8489 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Posts: 858 Location: Johnson City Tn
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Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2023 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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I know it's an old thread, but one of Mt friends just received a bach 19072v and 19072x from bach. These are the new models from them. I don't have much info in them yet, but I hope to get my 19072g sometime this year. _________________ Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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LDK-97 Veteran Member
Joined: 17 Sep 2011 Posts: 132
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Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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Do You have any info of the difference between 190v vs 190x?
Regards _________________ Bach Stradivarius Artisan Bb
Bach Stradivarius 43/Blackburn 19 Bb
Bach Stradivarius 229 25A C
Bach Stradivarius Artisan Piccolo
Yamaha 8335GS Neo Bb |
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chef8489 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Posts: 858 Location: Johnson City Tn
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Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2023 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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LDK-97 wrote: | Do You have any info of the difference between 190v vs 190x?
Regards |
I am not sure I think the 190x is a light weight body with a reverse leadpipe. The v might be the 19072 mlv vindabona I know another friend got the 19072 mlv vindabona in to replace her edwards she was on.
I want to say these have not officially been released as of yet and it's subject to change, but hopefully they hurry up and release them.
Got some good news from my contact Bach today.. I'll update after NAam, but needless to say I'll be selling the 1967 bach 37 I just purchased that I was going to get a restoration on. _________________ Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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chef8489 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Posts: 858 Location: Johnson City Tn
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Posted: Fri May 12, 2023 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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I have an update I can post after ITG this month.. _________________ Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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chef8489 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Posts: 858 Location: Johnson City Tn
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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Finally posting pics of my horn. This is a 190 model with a 72 gold brass side seam bell, 43 lead-pipe, reverse slide stop, 3rd slide water key and 1st slide trigger. I have Meteorite finger buttons on it thanks to Ewan Divitt. I truly love this horn and it's everything I hoped it could be. I might send it back for a Vindabona slide, but I have not made up my mind as of yet. I was asked not to post pics of it till things were all settled at Bach with the new models and Andy new position. They are turning out some great horns now.
_________________ Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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JonathanM Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 2018 Location: Charleston, SC
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2023 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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Great pics, thank you!!
And it's a gorgeous horn, ditto for the fingerbuttons. Super glad to hear that you like it - and thanks for posting.
I have a few MK tuning slides and I have to say they can really make a difference in how a horn plays and how it sounds. I'd encourage you to get the Vindabonna slide, but I hate shipping horns across the country for any reason. Tough decision there. Shipping most often goes well today, but one can never tell until afterward. _________________ Jonathan Milam
Trumpets: 18043B, 18043*, 18043 Sterling Silver +, 18037 SterlingSilver+, Benge 4x, Olds: '34 Symphony, '47 Super, '52 Recording
Flugle: Strad 182
Puje: American Belle
Cornet: Olds Recording & Super |
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