Harmon with or without stem?

PookDog78 · Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:52 am Post subject: Harmon with or without stem?

Hello all,

I play lead in a mostly amateur swing band and, as the lead player and only pro in the section, I am the default section leader. Every time we have a tune requiring Harmon, I am always asked by the other trumpets if it is stem in or stem out. I am mostly classically trained, but I was told in high school that you never use the stem in jazz band. I don't ever remember using Harmon with stem in high school or college jazz ensembles.

Anyone out there have any thoughts, rules or guidelines on when and when not to use the stem in jazz? I already know the classical pieces that require the stem. I'm just wondering about jazz, specifically swing band music from the late 30s to the 50s (that basically covers all of our repertoire). Thanks in advance!

Craig Swartz · Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:57 am Post subject:

Do Harmons come with a stem???

Period music can be used with stem, or if the "wa-wa" effect is needed (Rhapsody in Blue…), most things over the past 50 years or so don't use them, at least in my experience.

PookDog78 · Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:12 am Post subject:

When I bought my first Harmon mute in 9th grade, an upper classmen told me to take the stem out and throw it away! I have used Harmon with stem for Rhapsody in Blue, the Halsey Stevens and several other modern classical compositions (anything by Gunther Schuller!)

I'm still curious about the application of Harmon with stem (if any) in the big band era repertoire.

lakejw · Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:23 am Post subject:

Definitely keep the stem! Why would you throw it away? I use mine all the time, especially in swing music. However, I rarely (if ever) use it in big band music post-1945.

You have to consider how the section sounds 50 ft in front of the band. No-stem harmons actually sound quite diffuse, and are more useful as an orchestral color than any notable rhythm or even pitch (unless it's a section unison). With the stem in, however, things like sections solis, a solo line, or chords will sound much better to the audience. I mean, it sounds a little corny with the stem in, but swing is a little corny, too. I think of a stem-in harmon as an even dorkier-sounding straight mute.
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PhxHorn · Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:28 pm Post subject:

I get asked to use harmon with stem about once very ten years, usually for some kind of wah-wah special effect. There was one big band leader who liked them in all the time so they cut more. But I keep it at home in the closet. It's not something you'd be expected to bring with you all the time.

hose · Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:40 pm Post subject:

I've seen Harmon instructions fairly often (maybe pre-swing music?) that details what to do with the Harmon. "Stem extended. "pull stem", "no stem", etc. To me. unless the trpts are mic'ed, Harmons without stems can't be heard beyond 20 ft, anyway. Good effect for studio work or when otherwise amplified. Just my 2 cents.
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superviking805 · Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 3:39 pm Post subject:

I Had a Big Band section leader tell us "Stem out" meant to extend the stem more than halfway out of the mute, looked ridiculous. Several people protested but he was adamant.
My current section leader says stem out means to remove the stem from the mute.

cheiden · Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:06 pm Post subject:

Larry Smithee · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 4399

Don't throw the stem away. You never know when you might need to play some cartoon music.

nieuwguyski · Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 7:00 pm Post subject:

The musical "42nd Street" contains specific stem instructions in the trumpet books ("stem half extended," "stem 3/4 extended," "stem out").

I also agree that in older swing charts stem-in is assumed, unless stem-out is specified... except most players don't have the stem.
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Rapier232 · Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 10:29 pm Post subject:

Les Mis requires stem in, no stem and stem in with no time to remove the stem or put it back. I bought a second harmon.
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larryspencermusic · Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:53 pm Post subject:

I own and use 5 different Harmon mutes regularly. There are many different applications for a variety of mutes for various styles, bands, lead (principal) players, effects, and shows. With stem, without stem, extended stem. Copper, aluminum, brass, nickel, and even fiberglass! Walt Johnson made a fiberglass Harmon that is great! I use it for close mic solos and hotel room practicing.
I have ( and use) 3 different cup mutes and 4 straight mutes. I mean no offense to any anyone but there is a big, wide world of music out there, so don't let yourself be limited by your sphere of experience. For instance, who would you consider the trumpet player heard by the most people in the world since 1949? (that'll start some opinions flying!) Harry James? Malcom Mc Nab? Rick Baptist? Maynard Ferguson? Doc Severinson? Check out Uan Rasey! He was first trumpet for MGM Studios for over 25 years! West Side Story, Singin in the Rain, American in Paris, etc, etc, etc, etc.... Do you think he threw away the stem for his mute?

Rapier232 · Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:44 am Post subject:

Larryspencermusic, you are right. Opinion flying in. Derek Watkins. Played on every Bond movie, so probably reached more people than any other trumpeter.
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mograph · Veteran Member Joined: 17 Feb 2020 Posts: 101

I agree: sometimes the stem needs to be in for the section to be heard. No-stem, not-mic'ed, can sound muddy in some passages.
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Oncewasaplayer · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Sep 2007 Posts: 974

Trad jazz trumpet players in New Orleans frequently play the harmon mute with the stem in. They get a wah-whah sound that can carry in small clubs without a microphone. Think, Sugar Blues, Clyde McCoy style. While he's not playing a harmon in this early recording, this is a similar sound you can create with a modern harmon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjemjB3kgAM
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cheiden · Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 2:10 pm Post subject:

Dale Proctor · Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2023 3:40 pm Post subject:

Though most trumpet players Iâ€™ve been around never use the stem, i occasionally come across a piece of music that calls for a Harmon mute on a passage marked fortissimo. Without being micâ€™d, I donâ€™t know how to even approach that volume level with the stem removed.
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