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RL Veteran Member
Joined: 06 Sep 2009 Posts: 162
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ALETRUMPET Regular Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2022 Posts: 79
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Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2023 8:06 am Post subject: |
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Jacko1235 wrote: | Halflip wrote: | Jacko1235 wrote: | Out of curiousity, what's the difference between a modern 6C and a Mt Vernon 6C? |
Using the "unofficial mouthpiece comparator", the chief difference I see is that the drop-off from the high point of the rim to the outside edge is slightly more gradual on the Mount Vernon 6c, resulting in a rim that is slightly flatter.
Here is the link to the comparator with the two profiles overlaid (the Mount Vernon is the green outline):
https://trumpet.cloud/mpc/index.html?mpc1id=A003300&mpc2id=B010400 |
I have a Curry 6C. Love the wide rim and the great core of sound it produces, I just wish that there was a tiny bit more bite as sometimes it's too flat. Do you think the Mt Vernon 6C is different enough to buy one of the replicas listed? As the difference between a Curry 3C. and a modern Bach 3C is night and day. |
Maybe for you. I find the Curry 3C to be a comfortable mouthpiece, but the sound you get is definitely inferior to the new Bach 3Cs. This continuous discrediting of the new Bac 3Cs is incomprehensible, in my opinion it is now in people's DNA. It does not make sense |
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Jacko1235 Regular Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2017 Posts: 38
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Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2023 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe for you. I find the Curry 3C to be a comfortable mouthpiece, but the sound you get is definitely inferior to the new Bach 3Cs. This continuous discrediting of the new Bac 3Cs is incomprehensible, in my opinion it is now in people's DNA. It does not make sense[/quote]
I have a Bach 3C from probably 2007. Are they equivalent? |
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jadickson Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Jun 2006 Posts: 1297 Location: Raleigh, NC
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Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2023 2:55 am Post subject: |
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Jacko1235 wrote: | ...I have a Bach 3C from probably 2007. Are they equivalent? |
Bach significantly changed the way that they manufacture mouthpieces about a year ago. They no longer buff the cup of the mouthpiece, in an effort for to make them more consistent. They obviously changed other things also because the end of the backbore no longer has the “teeth marks” that they have had forever.
I got my local music shop to order a bunch of the new 3C’s so I could try them. They were all different, they are still not very consistent. But better than it used to be. And they play and blow differently than the old ones. Not better or worse, just different. _________________ Justin Dickson
Middle school band director. Still learning.
www.BandmateTuner.com
Last edited by jadickson on Fri Aug 18, 2023 11:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9089 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2023 6:27 am Post subject: |
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What do 3Cs have to do with 6Cs? _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis." Attributed to Chet
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet |
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BreakFromTheHerd Veteran Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2022 Posts: 147
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Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2023 8:12 am Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | What do 3Cs have to do with 6Cs? |
We humans love to wander off-topic. |
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Halflip Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003 Posts: 1968 Location: WI
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Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2023 8:22 am Post subject: |
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BreakFromTheHerd wrote: | We humans love to wander off-topic. |
Or "break from the herd"? _________________ "He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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Manuel de los Campos Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 665 Location: Amsterdam, the Netherlands
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Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2023 7:45 am Post subject: |
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I once telephoned to Bruno Tilz -since I can speak German as well- and he told me that his BaKo (Bach Kopie) is made after Vincent Bach Mount Vernon models. https://www.mundstueckbau-tilz.de/92-modell-bako2.html
I ordered a 3C.
Nice pieces, if it's a one to one copy I don't know but what I know is that his 'copy' has a wayyyyyyyyyyyyy bigger backbore. Maybe because German trumpet mouthpiecemakers think of use in so called 'Concert Trompetes' ? The JK USA mouthpieces have bigger backbores as well rather than standard Vincent Bach pieces.
The rim of the 3C BaKo feld bigger than my original Bach Corp. 3C, more like a Bach Corp. 1 1/2C.
I expect the 6C BaKo to be bigger than the Bach Corp. 6C
By the way, Bruno Tilz has a special line for Jazz Trompete but the numerology is a mystery to me...
https://www.mundstueckbau-tilz.de/65-modell-usa.html _________________ Technology alone is a poor substitute for experience. (Richard Sachs) |
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RussellDDixon Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2014 Posts: 833 Location: Mason, OH
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Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2023 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/325786289714? _________________ Schilke X3 Bb trumpet
Yamaha 631g Flugelhorn
Nicholson Monette Prana XLT mouthpiece
Kanstul Claude Gordon Personal mouthpiece |
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shofar Veteran Member
Joined: 02 Jun 2003 Posts: 231 Location: Rogersville, Tennessee
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Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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Bob Reeves makes the best replicas of the classic Bach mouthpieces. |
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moketrumpet Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Oct 2004 Posts: 142 Location: Chandler, AZ
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Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2023 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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I noticed groove/tooling marks on the cup of the Bach mouthpieces now being produced. Very noticeable. Not buffed anymore. Are they made in another country? |
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Aj Regular Member
Joined: 14 May 2006 Posts: 83
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 7:53 am Post subject: |
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I love my modern Bach 6C for sound and size. Curry 6 is too flat for me hence why I have a brand new 6B and 6Z for sale. (6C sold) The Curry 6B is a nice sounding piece.
Im interested to try Reeves classical 6C or the Marcink ver. |
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lipshurt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2008 Posts: 2642 Location: vista ca
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 9:00 am Post subject: |
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I think the newest bach pieces are made very well. I have worked maybe 40 or 50 or more and they were all very concentric, and the shanks all exactly fit into my number 5 test plug. So they all gapped out exactly the same. The cups and rims of 10 different 1c examples all had cup diameters that measured out within .002 of each other. The cups were even closer to each other.
the one area of variation that was most notable was backbore size. The backbore reamer was not inserted the same amount and so my backbore reamer would go in various amount that were as much as like .015. That’s def enough to notice.
I’ve been doing quite a bit mixing and matching with the new Bach’s because they are easy to buy cheap from mouthpiece express. Orchestra players get a bunch and thread the backbores and tops and mix with yamaha or Bach’s from other eras. Sometimes I’ll do ten at a time.
One thing i really like is now the exterior humps in the middle are the same diameter, so they are easy to hold once the top is cut off. Also the flat spot where the numbers are is now perfectly concentric with the cup and rim and easy hold. That spot used to be not even flat and holding those required some ingenuity when doing modification like threading for a rim etc. Now it’s waaay easier.
All of that is because they are made CNC without removing from the chuck for a second operation. The old ones could be very far from concentric between rim, cup, throat and exterior. All of that out-of-concentricity could make for a magic mouthpiece however! Once you know where it should be clocked it could be better than anything if your chops liked a different bite for the top lip than the bottom lip for instance. That is why old pieces can be hard to beat for certain people. _________________ Mouthpiece Maker
vintage Trumpet design enthusiast
www.meeuwsenmouthpieces.com
www.youtube.com/lipshurt |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9089 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 9:07 am Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | Got a Marcinkiewicz off of eBay. We'll see.
Thanks. | Just a reminder so no one wastes their time needlessly on my account. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis." Attributed to Chet
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet |
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Aj Regular Member
Joined: 14 May 2006 Posts: 83
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Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2023 6:52 am Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | kehaulani wrote: | Got a Marcinkiewicz off of eBay. We'll see.
Thanks. | Just a reminder so no one wastes their time needlessly on my account. |
So, how'd it go? Keen for your opinion. |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9089 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2023 7:43 am Post subject: |
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Well, I'm so accustomed to Purviance and Reeves mouthpieces that I'm not sure of the value added. I would just say it's a different feel - not uncomfortable, just different- and the sound is a little deeper than what I've been using. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis." Attributed to Chet
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet |
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Aj Regular Member
Joined: 14 May 2006 Posts: 83
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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:59 am Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | Well, I'm so accustomed to Purviance and Reeves mouthpieces that I'm not sure of the value added. I would just say it's a different feel - not uncomfortable, just different- and the sound is a little deeper than what I've been using. |
Hows it compare to a Bach 6C?
I ask as I like the sound of a modern Bach 6C for Hard Bop or similar improv work, but would like it more efficient. I love my Reeves 42C or 42sM 692s but that 60s hard bop/cool sound is not present. |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9089 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:35 am Post subject: |
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Aj wrote: | How's it compare to a Bach 6C? |
The main difference for me is just the rim. It's not a clone of a 6C, it is their take on it, so there may be some other subtitle differences I don't feel.. . or mayve which I just blow past. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis." Attributed to Chet
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet |
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BreakFromTheHerd Veteran Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2022 Posts: 147
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Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2024 4:02 am Post subject: |
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My Yamaha 13B4 was starting to feel tight to me, so I ordered a JK (Josef Klier) USA 6C from Europe. It does appear (as advertised) to have a Mt. Vernon 6C rim. Flattish and semi-wide, but not as flat as the Curry 6C rim. Medium-sharp bite, but still comfortable. The sound is crisp and compact - very similar to my 13B4. But the backbore is a tiny bit more open than the Yamaha's.
Sadly, I don't sound like Chet Baker or Lee Morgan with it. 😞 |
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Irving Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 1891
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Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2024 5:25 am Post subject: |
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In the JK USA models that I have tried, the backbores are quite a bit larger than Bach backbores. But, the hole is around a 28 (3.6mm), so that would be one size smaller than the normal Bach hole. You can order any of the JK models with a 3.8mm hole which is around a 25. I don't think they charge extra, but I'm not positive. |
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