Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3310 Location: Endwell NY USA
Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2023 11:57 am Post subject:
If a player really has a 'solid' G above high C, then it's very likely they will be able to play the A 'in the right circumstances'.
My experience with adult amateur groups is that having a good high range means being able to reliably play a good sounding (tone, control, etc.) high C whenever it appears throughout a performance session. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 301 Location: South of Chicago
Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2023 12:23 pm Post subject:
I cant think of many community band or wind ensemble pieces I have played that go above a high C. If you plan on playing lead in a big band then a G is a good goal. I have played a number charts that have range demands between high C and G.
I have a solid F with squirrely G and I am able to handle most of the parts that come my way. _________________ Gary Wood (comeback player with no street cred)
GR 66M/66MS/66**
Bach Strad 37
Getzen 3052
Yamaha 6345
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3310 Location: Endwell NY USA
Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2023 1:06 pm Post subject:
Trumpetstud wrote:
I'm using a method book that the top note is G above High C. I'm not there yet but just wondered.
--------------------------------
Does that G appears in 'etudes' that are supposed to be played in a melodic manner, or is it in 'range building' studies such as arpeggios, chords, etc.?
Unless a player has a good foundation on technique for playing ... say higher than G above the staff, then it often happens that they try to 'brute force' higher notes with lots of rim pressure and extreme air pressure to hopefully get their lips to produce the higher pitches. That usually isn't successful unless they discover better 'mechanics' that enable the lips to vibrate without excessive pressure, lip compression, air pressure, etc. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3310 Location: Endwell NY USA
Posted: Sat Aug 19, 2023 1:27 pm Post subject:
The book probably (should) say something about working UP slowly, with emphasis on doing 'good playing' in the range that you're able to handle. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
Joined: 26 May 2006 Posts: 1808 Location: Toronto, Canada
Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2023 4:25 am Post subject:
This is an answer to the thread title question more than the actual OP's post, but here goes:
I'd consider the high range to be anything above, say, Bb or C above the staff. I'd say that playing gets quite different from this range upwards, on account of the diminished reinforced standing wave effect in the range upwards from G at the top of the staff, and also because the fingerings get much less reliable for locking in notes in this range than in the lower part of the trumpet range.
In short, the sound, playing characteristics, and underlying physics change meaningfully in this range in a way that's quite distinct from the rest of the trumpet range.
I think your goal is to be able to play above the music you're given.
How far above? Well, if you are required to play a high C, you might want to develop your range to the G above that. If you are called upon to play that high G (or the A) reliably, you might want to develop your double C.
What you're given depends on the genre, right? B-flat "legit" music, seeeeems to not go above C for the non-professional. But don't quote me on that. However, I've seen non-professional lead trumpet charts in a big band that go to the G above high C.
My point is that you probably don't want to squeak it out on the job, or leave it to chance, so keep your reliable notes inside your range.
But that "fifth/fourth above" is only a rule of thumb. Maybe being able to play a tone above your music, reliably, is enough. _________________ 1985 Bach 37
1980 King 601 (it's bulletproof!)
1978 Couesnon flugelhorn
Playing for fun since 1979.
Fmr member 48th Highlanders of Canada Mil Band
Into that jazz devil music
Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2023 8:07 am Post subject: Range
The great NYC lead player Bernie Glow said "if it goes above a F call Ernie Royal. Charlie Shavers told me "everything above high C is open". My point is your range should be what you've got after a four hour gig.
And be careful what you say when asked what is your range. When I was at Berklee I was in Herb Pomeroy's Recording Band. On the first day Herb says, "what's your range Kid?" I said with some cockiness, "I've got an F". Herb proceeded to pass out a chart called "Woolafunt's Lament" that had 65 high F's in the lead part and the first note was a high F. Of course I crashed on the first page. Big lesson learned.
Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2023 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: Range
Tony Scodwell wrote:
The great NYC lead player Bernie Glow said "if it goes above a F call Ernie Royal. Charlie Shavers told me "everything above high C is open". My point is your range should be what you've got after a four hour gig.
And be careful what you say when asked what is your range. When I was at Berklee I was in Herb Pomeroy's Recording Band. On the first day Herb says, "what's your range Kid?" I said with some cockiness, "I've got an F". Herb proceeded to pass out a chart called "Woolafunt's Lament" that had 65 high F's in the lead part and the first note was a high F. Of course I crashed on the first page. Big lesson learned.
Joined: 06 Feb 2002 Posts: 2349 Location: Santa Cruz County, CA
Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2023 6:26 pm Post subject:
I remember reading an article by Arthur Benade published in "Scientific American" in which he stated that notes beginning at E over high C are simply harder to play -- the resonance peaks that make the valves-open series of "overtones" somewhat easy to play drop off dramatically at that resonance peak.
I will offer that my personal journey to my "upper register" agrees with this. I could nail the heck out of an Eb over high C for years, but the E was... elusive. Which is why I've always considered the high register to start at E. _________________ J. Notso Nieuwguyski
I'd say that high range begins somewhere around C#, D, Eb above the staff. That's about the beginning point where the majority of (non-beginner) trumpet players cannot reliably play in an appropriate musical context. It is the domain of professionals and serious students/amateurs. High range ends around the A above high C. I would describe the notes above that as the extreme upper register. Reliable playing in that range is the domain of specialists.
Some context may be required. An orchestral trumpet -- where the rep typically doesn't go above a D -- player may have a different sense of high range than a commercial player -- where the rep often goes up to G/Ab/A.
Quote:
If my goal is to have a solid G do I really need to be able to play an A above High C?
I'd say it is reasonable to expect that someone who has a solid G can at least squeak out notes above it.
In terms of what we're calling it, then yeah, high is C to G, and above that is extreme, for high note specialists. _________________ 1985 Bach 37
1980 King 601 (it's bulletproof!)
1978 Couesnon flugelhorn
Playing for fun since 1979.
Fmr member 48th Highlanders of Canada Mil Band
Into that jazz devil music
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Posts: 5299 Location: Central Texas
Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2023 2:54 am Post subject:
gwood66 wrote:
I cant think of many community band or wind ensemble pieces I have played that go above a high C.
There are a fair number that do, actually. Though, it's not too common, quite a few do go up to at least a D.
A particular example, Rocky Point Holiday, goes up to an Eb right in the first bar, too. _________________ "Music is like candy, you throw the (w)rappers away."
I personally consider high range to be for me anything above that point where I can't play anything I want to the way I want to. The same goes for low range. Everthing between is my usable range, and its borders are liquid.
That being said, define solid. My usable is now to about an Eb, but I can play a solid G. "Given the right circumstances" _________________ YTR 8310Z III
YTR 8335 LAS II
'72 Benge 3X
Couesnon Flugelhorn
Yamaha YTR-9820 Piccolo
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