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AnEpik
New Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2023
Posts: 5
Location: Michigan / Oakland University SMTD
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 Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2023 9:51 pm Post subject: What am I doing wrong? |
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Hello! Right now I’m really just confused more than anything - I’ve been playing for the past 10 years and used to be able to play relatively high, though I later realized that it was solely due to bad habits like too much pressure and tension, and I’ve been working a lot to play without those bad habits and with more air, but I’ve just lost a lot of my range. Before, I used to be able to play consistent high Cs and Ds, but now I’m limited to the G on top of the staff (and sometimes not even that). Does anybody have any advice for how to rebuild my range properly?
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Dayton
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013
Posts: 2046
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2023 1:42 am Post subject: |
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If you have a teacher this is a question best addressed with him/her. If you don't have a teacher, you might rethink that. This is the kind of issue that a good teacher can help prevent from happening or help fix if it happens.
It is difficult to offer more useful advice beyond that because there are so many unknowns. Do you practice regularly? I'd define that as at least 5 days per week for at least 30 minutes per day. If you are not, you probably won't see the results you want even if everything else is going well. Also, if you are not resting and giving your chops time to recover, you are likely not going to get the results you want.
| Quote: | | I later realized that it was solely due to bad habits like too much pressure and tension, and I’ve been working a lot to play without those bad habits and with more air, but I’ve just lost a lot of my range. |
If you are making a significant change to how you play, you'll certainly encounter an adjustment period. The more significant the change, the longer that adjustment period will be, in general. Also, the more time you spend working on the change -- try this, then try that, then go back to the first thing, try a third thing, etc. -- the longer the adjustment period.
I'd say that if you are more than a few months past the point at which you stabilized and implemented your change and are not seeing positive results, then the change(s) you made was not effective.
That may be because you don't understand the issue you are having, and are trying to "fix" the wrong thing. Excess mouthpiece-against-lip pressure and excess tension can certainly cause problems, but application of a flawed concept of "less pressure," for example, can create its own problems. This is exactly the kind of situation where a teacher watching and listening to you play would be so useful for you. |
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Dayton
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013
Posts: 2046
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2023 2:16 am Post subject: |
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I'm breaking my response in two rather than making one really long response.
First, a disclaimer. A good practice routine using incorrect mechanics isn't going to get you the results you want. A solid upper register and endurance in the upper register are, to a large extent, a by-product of correct playing.
You say you are limited to G on top of the staff right now. A relatively simple way to build range and endurance back up is to give Claude Gordon's "Physical Approach to Elementary Brass Playing" a try. Start on a lesson that is comfortable for you and give each lesson a few weeks. Rest as much as you play, and don't play to the point where you are exhausting your chops.
If you are not seeing positive results after two months -- perhaps a bit longer if you were not practicing regularly before you started Physical Approach -- then the changes you made to how you play were likely not positive changes and your challenge is likely one that cannot be addressed (fully) by a practice routine. That is a brightly shining sign that you need to start working with a teacher.
Good luck! |
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kalijah
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 3260
Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2023 6:02 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I’ve been working a lot to play without those bad habits and with more air |
I find that the main range problem for almost all players is just excessive embouchure effort in general, starting with the low to mid-range.
That habit is most often brought about by immediate high-effort, high-fatigue approaches. The #1 causative culprit is buzzing of ANY kind. But also: long tones, lip flexibilities, "more air", firm-corners, flat-chin etc.
And, efficient playing requires less air, not more. I can show you how to reduce your baseline effort and gain more headroom for range. |
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JayKosta
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 3308
Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2023 6:06 am Post subject: Re: What am I doing wrong? |
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| AnEpik wrote: | | ... now I’m limited to the G on top of the staff (and sometimes not even that). Does anybody have any advice for how to rebuild my range properly? |
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I think the issue is with the physical 'mechanics' of how you are playing. With good technique, range will develop.
NEEDED stuff:
Lips positioned (aperture size and shape adjusted by muscle control, and supported by rim pressure) so air can be blown through the aperture and result in vibrations when playing the instrument (not necessarily lip or mpc buzzing).
Enough rim pressure to support aperture control and prevent air leakage.
Learning to use lower lip rim pressure and jaw control to distribute the rim pressure between the upper and lower lips. I believe this is a key item that is overlooked by many players.
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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Robert P
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Joined: 28 Feb 2013
Posts: 2596
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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Without a recording it's impossible to know whether you really had solid ownership of the C and D but while you want to play with as little pressure as you can get away with if you were playing genuinely full-bodied high C and D you weren't achieving them simply by excess pressure. You can't substitute pressure for the other elements that have to be in place.
| Quote: | | I later realized that it was solely due to bad habits like too much pressure and tension |
Not trying to be harsh but like a lot of people I've seen post in here you're making statements in the abstract because it's what you've heard but they don't reflect a true understanding of what's going on.
If you didn't truly understand how you were achieving those notes in the first place you won't understand why they've gotten away from you. Some people seem to be able to do okay without any understanding - they just put it up and blow and things sort themselves out. I'm not one of them and it doesn't sound like you are either.
There are a number of elements that have to be in place to play any pitch - even playing the same pitch at different volume levels has different requirements.
You're playing with a flesh reed that's inside the mouthpiece and there are various surrounding elements at play - the tension of the vibrating surface is impacted subtly by the surrounding muscles as well as the pressure/pressure distribution of the mouthpiece - playing requires pressure and the higher you go the tighter it's going to feel. The way the air flows by the vibrating surfaces has an impact, your oral cavity/tongue configuration, the alignment of the upper and lower lip to each other - i.e. teeth alignment has an impact. The space between the teeth, there are sonic physics things going on - the nature of the sound wave. The way you set the mouthpiece can make a difference.
There are infinite ways all of these things can happen, only a certain combination will achieve the results you want. It's possible to get close and achieve a less than optimal sound. If you get a thin, airy, pathetic high C you're getting a piece of it but you need to fine-tune it to get the clear, full-bodied high C you really want.
That's the aggravation of playing trumpet - you're always walking a tightrope and it's easy to fall off - *all* the elements have to be there, any of them will knock you off. It'll require you to do something different than what you're doing if you're not getting the results you want - the horn doesn't change, you're the variable. At least you know you *can* do it, you need to figure out the "how" and be able to repeat it - you have to determine what that "something" is.
Assuming you truly can play that top of staff G clean, solid, can play a scale up to it, can arpeggiate to it, can pick it off and can really paste it then what adjustments are needed to play the Ab? The A, the Bb etc. Try to be really tuned-in to what's going on as you play each pitch.
Then you run into having to re-set to hit a note. Okay, how do you get to where you can play up to the note without having to re-set? You need to train your neuromuscular/auditory feedback loop to feel when things are set just so. And you're never going to achieve 100% - even the best players miss and split notes, they just have a way better batting average than most of us.
There's a recording on YouTube of Doc Severinsen playing Rondo For Trumpet where he misses a double C at the end. He played the rest of the piece amazingly well and normally he could punch a hole in a concrete wall with a dub C but because of issues with cold meds he was taking there was a change in the moisture of his mouth & lips and that was enough of a difference to throw him off. It's good for us mere mortals to see that even elite players are working against the same issues as we are.
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Last edited by Robert P on Thu Dec 21, 2023 4:04 am; edited 8 times in total |
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Steve A
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 1808
Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2023 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: What am I doing wrong? |
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| AnEpik wrote: | | Hello! Right now I’m really just confused more than anything - I’ve been playing for the past 10 years and used to be able to play relatively high, though I later realized that it was solely due to bad habits like too much pressure and tension, and I’ve been working a lot to play without those bad habits and with more air, but I’ve just lost a lot of my range. Before, I used to be able to play consistent high Cs and Ds, but now I’m limited to the G on top of the staff (and sometimes not even that). Does anybody have any advice for how to rebuild my range properly? |
I understand this probably isn't the input you're looking for, but asking an internet forum full of people of various levels of knowledge and experience to suggest solutions to a common but very vague set of problems without being able to see or hear you is likely to only do one thing - make the confusion you're currently experiencing worse.
Based on this amount of info, you're going to get a bunch of blind guesses from people whose credentials are going to vary widely. Ponying up the money and time to get lessons in person from someone whose input you trust is definitely the best way to address this problem. If you're really set on asking the internet for help, at a very minimum, posting some videos of you playing scales starting in ranges you do control and moving into then back out of difficult areas, as well as some simple etudes and lyrical pieces will give people a fighting chance at giving you better input than blind guesses. (Although you'll still be stuck with the task of trying to decide which of the broad and varied field of contradictory advice to act on, and how.) |
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epoustoufle
Veteran Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2015
Posts: 233
Location: France
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2023 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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The following video by TH member billyb is a good place to start.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxTb2gEaTU4
We trumpet players often do not start off on the right foot and that's the start of a long journey going the wrong way...! |
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Al Innella
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2008
Posts: 755
Location: Levittown NY
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2023 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| I see a lot of suggestions addressing this problem. It would be very helpful and answer a lot of questions if I could see and hear what you're describing . Posting a video of you so we can hear and see how you apply your technique for playing from the lower to the upper register would be greatly appreciated. |
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Jason Rogers
Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Nov 2021
Posts: 101
Location: Salisbury, MD
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| Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2024 6:13 am Post subject: What to practice for developing range.... |
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Without seeing or hearing you in person.....I can not help!
But when the elements of your playing seem to be moving in the right direction.......
I like using the approach to range develop that Walter M. Smith uses in the preparatory exercises for his Top Tones etude collection. Important: Follow his written directions only when your developmental level is ready!!! Start on a scale that is comfortable and solid ...maybe low G to G on top of the staff?----but that is an individual thing. Aim for your playing to be clear and "perfect" throw the scales and arpeggios ...
His range development approach is intended to develop your embouchure to meet the requirements of his etudes.
Practice and range development must be done everyday!!!
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