Wider Bach Valve Finger Buttons?

JSco · Veteran Member Joined: 11 Jul 2014 Posts: 146

Hi TH friends. Happy New Year to all!

Is there anyone out there that manufactures wider Bach valve top caps/finger buttons? I've tried some aftermarket ones that are wider than stock, but they change the distance of the upstroke/downstroke. I'm not looking for bling or heavyweight/lightweight options, I'm just looking for a wider button without changing anything else with the OEM setup, if that makes sense.

My old Getzen Eterna (my favorite valves) has a much wider button than Bach. I find my fingers sliding around when I use my Bach.

Divitt, KGU, any others come to mind?
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Andy Cooper · Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2023 4:45 pm Post subject:

Just checking - have you tried the Curry Lightweight buttons? I don't really find them much lighter but they are wider.

JSco · Veteran Member Joined: 11 Jul 2014 Posts: 146

kehaulani · Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2023 4:51 pm Post subject:

Contact Divitt
https://www.divitt-trumpets.com/
(Canada)
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Andy Cooper · Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2023 5:01 pm Post subject:

Divitt Trumpets · Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2023 4:33 am Post subject:

Unless the dimensions on the underside of the button are wrong, the travel of the valve won't change. The stroke might feel different if the height of the button isn't the same as your original buttons, but that isn't changing the actual distance the valve travels.
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OldSchoolEuph · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2441

The thing that stands out to me in this is that wider buttons MAY be bad for the horn by enabling bad habits.

It is possible to play the horn without buttons - the valve stems don't feel very good, but it is possible. The hard part with that extreme analogy is that one's form must be solid - precisely actuating the pistons, not allowing for slop (the extreme example of which would be those who lay their fingers over the buttons rather than the tips, though that is not what we are talking about here).

The point is, if your approach to the valve is straight, there should be no sliding around, regardless of button size. A larger button merely provides a wider area for the force to be applied to, allowing for the center of the force line to be off-center relative to the valve. That creates lateral forces on the piston and will result in excessive casing wall wear, ultimately causing the valves to leak.

As someone whose mildly arthritic fingers have started rotating a bit at some joints, I certainly understand that there can be challenges. But it does not change the physics, and thus the importance of applying force in line with the center axis of the piston if you want the valves to last. Wider buttons just invite doing damage.
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thejoed · Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2023 8:47 am Post subject:

I really like the Harrelson flat-topped raw brass finger buttons. They might be a little bit wider, but the flat metal surface is much more grippy than the stock plastic/pearl rounded buttons. Available plated if brass doesn't jive with your skin.
They do not alter the up/downstroke.

https://www.whyharrelson.com/store/p252/Set_of_3_Finger_Button_Tops_and_Bottoms_-_Brass.html
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adagiotrumpet · Heavyweight Member Joined: 31 May 2006 Posts: 907

OldSchoolEuph · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2441

JSco · Veteran Member Joined: 11 Jul 2014 Posts: 146

LittleRusty · Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2023 12:21 pm Post subject:

Maybe buttons with a light concavity or cup would feel good when pressed and help you keep the fingers aligned?

JWG · Veteran Member Joined: 27 Jul 2011 Posts: 258

I got used to the silver-plated brass Curry-style finger buttons on my Kanstul-made Flip Oakes horns, and purchased a set for my son's and daughter's Bachs.

My son preferred the feeling of mother-of-pearl finger buttons.

However, my daughter liked the flatter and wider Curry finger buttons.

With regard to finger buttons causing irregular valve wear, I recall reading a piece quoting Vincent Bach, in which he attributed the irregular valve wear mostly to players having poor right hand position over the finger buttons and not evenly depressing the pistons with the tip of the finger depressing downward at 90 degrees. Bach said that the greater the deflection from 90 degrees, the greater the irregular valve wear.

As a mechanical engineer, Bach likely got mechanical formulas drilled into him and committed to memory and heart. In the late 1800's and early 1900's, 90% of all engineering consisted of pure mechanical engineering, because electrical engineering remained in its infancy and structural engineering got taught mostly in architecture schools. It seems logical to conclude that, without modern metallurgy, materials science, and tighter tolerances, deflection angles caused more wear damage back then than deflection angles cause today.
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OldSchoolEuph · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2441