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konrad343
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Joined: 04 Jan 2024
Posts: 4
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 Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2024 11:08 am Post subject: Uneven embouchure, one sided |
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Hello trumpeters, its my first post on this site and im happy to be here and read all these great questions and answers. Im playing trumpet for over the year and i developed a bad habit of making uneven embouchure. I tried to fix it few months ago but after i got a hang on making it correctly i stopped training with the mirror / camera and it came back to destroy my chops. Does someone know how to aproach this? Im struggling and even G on the second line in staff is hard and i know it shouldn't.
Heres a pic how it looks
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MeoWAzSoeiGbZvY34QbXuaQg4FTAo8zS/view?usp=sharing
Last edited by konrad343 on Fri Jan 05, 2024 11:30 am; edited 1 time in total |
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abontrumpet
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Joined: 08 May 2009
Posts: 1783
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| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2024 11:23 am Post subject: |
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The link isn't viewable. Change the permission to "anybody with a link can view."
There are many uneven embouchures, so you shouldn't focus on making a "perfect looking" one. There are some general qualities a good placement/embouchure has. But we can talk more after seeing it. |
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konrad343
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Joined: 04 Jan 2024
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| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2024 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| abontrumpet wrote: | | There are many uneven embouchures, so you shouldn't focus on making a "perfect looking" one. |
Updated permisions
i know every one is little different but i think its my main flaw why i cant progress. And even with good support and tight corners i cannot play G in staff |
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abontrumpet
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Joined: 08 May 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2024 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| konrad343 wrote: | | i know every one is little different but i think its my main flaw why i cant progress. And even with good support and tight corners i cannot play G in staff |
The problem is probably not your uneven embouchure (it's not that uneven). We really need to hear to you offer good advice. If you PM me, we can video chat and I can offer my advice! |
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JayKosta
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 3308
Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2024 11:43 am Post subject: |
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When you do a non-playing relaxed smile, is your mouth position similar to the photo you posted?
If your mouth position is different between relaxed and playing, can you determine a muscle action you are doing that gives that result?
When playing, are you attempting to have physical contact with any or your upper teeth and lower teeth - you shouldn't.
edit: other thoughts -
Are you trying to 'buzz' the note into the mouthpiece - you shouldn't.
If you make a 'relaxed playing embouchure on the complete instrument, and just gently blow through your lips, what note it produced (don't force a buzz, just let it happen).
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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konrad343
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Joined: 04 Jan 2024
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2024 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| abontrumpet wrote: | | The problem is probably not your uneven embouchure (it's not that uneven). We really need to hear to you offer good advice. If you PM me, we can video chat and I can offer my advice! |
I can hear the sound getting richer and easier to get when adjusting to more center focused embouchure |
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konrad343
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Joined: 04 Jan 2024
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2024 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| JayKosta wrote: | When you do a non-playing relaxed smile, is your mouth position similar to the photo you posted?
If your mouth position is different between relaxed and playing, can you determine a muscle action you are doing that gives that result?
When playing, are you attempting to have physical contact with any or your upper teeth and lower teeth - you shouldn't.
edit: other thoughts -
Are you trying to 'buzz' the note into the mouthpiece - you shouldn't.
If you make a 'relaxed playing embouchure on the complete instrument, and just gently blow through your lips, what note it produced (don't force a buzz, just let it happen). |
its not similiar to relaxed smiling
i think im trying to pull my corner to in direction of the cheek
So you are saying my lips shouldnt be touching my teeth?
im not buzzing my sound, i know that horn should create vibrations from just air
i will upload video of me playing tommorow |
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JayKosta
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 3308
Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2024 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| konrad343 wrote: | ...
i think im trying to pull my corner to in direction of the cheek
So you are saying my lips shouldnt be touching my teeth? ... |
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I meant specifically upper-tooth-to-lower-tooth contact - lips on teeth is proper.
Regarding 'pull my corner to direction of cheek' -
Try this 'exercise' / 'demonstration' - without mouthpiece or instrument, place a small pencil / drinking straw/ etc. between your lips and form the embouchure - does that produce a similar mouth position as the photo,
It might be that you are placing too much emphasis on pulling the lip corners towards their cheek.
I think it is a mistake to have the idea of the lips being similar to guitar strings that need to be stretched for the pitch.
My view is that the lips need to be 'adjusted' so they are flexible enough to easily vibrate at the desired pitch when there is air flow through the lips. The 'adjustment' is a complicated blend of stressing the lip tissue in MULTIPLE directions at the same time - inward / outward / pressing together / pulling apart / etc.
And there must not be so much rim pressure that the adjustments cannot affect the lip tissue inside the rim, or that the pressure inhibits the ability of the lips to vibrate.
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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zaferis
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 2333
Location: Beavercreek, OH
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| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2024 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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I would call that setup as being "slightly off center". nothing to worry about in itself -many of us play slightly to one side or the other.. I do, and it's governed by my dental shape.
There are a myriad of things that can be going on in your playing/setup/approach... in-person lessons with a skilled teacher and years of dedicated practice.
Don't worry about range. You have what you have. Work on tone, articulation, flexibility (I prefer the word "agility"), and playing music well. Like everything about the trumpet work to improve what your have, or where you are in the journey. I didn't own a solid C above the staff until I was into my college years.
Take lessons to have guidance, to avoid the big pitfalls, and gain ideas to improve in a logical manner.
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Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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spitvalve
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Mar 2002
Posts: 2158
Location: Little Elm, TX
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| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2024 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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I've played off-center from 5th grade onward - partly due to crooked teeth, partly due to sharing a music stand with four other cornetists and I was on the end and got in the habit of playing that way. I got braces in 7th grade and got them off in 9th grade and my teeth were straight, but I still played a little off-center and the trumpet pushed my teeth crooked again. I kept playing that way and did just fine. Played lead for most of my undergrad years.
A couple of years into grad school I got in a car wreck and suffered some temporary paralysis and permanent nerve damage on the left side of my embouchure (I play off to the right) and because of that it gradually shifted the "sweet spot" a little more to the right. I probably play about 1/8" over more than I did in college.
As long as I don't look in the mirror and just go for sound and feel, it has not hindered my tone or my range. Been playing that way for 50+ years now.
That was the long answer. Short answer: consult with a good teacher. From your picture it doesn't look too weird to me, but a good teacher will make sure everything else is working right before suggesting a position change.
Many great players play off to one side: Armando Ghitalla and "Wild Bill" Davidson come to mind. Maynard also played a bit off-center.
_________________
Bryan Fields
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1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1977 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
1995 UMI Benge 4PSP piccolo trumpet
Warburton and Stomvi Flex mouthpieces |
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