_________________ B & H Sovereign 928
Conn 80A
F. Besson Brevette Kanstul made
B&S Challenger II 3137 rl
Buescher 400 - 225 (WWII)
Benge 90C
Eastman 540 D/Eb
ACB Fluegelhorn
Selmer Picc
ACB mouthpieces for most of my playing
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2023 3:52 pm Post subject:
Mr. Steve, I was not serious about mr. Bond. It was just my take of the conspiracy movement.
It’s just that discussions about recorded sounds go often the same direction as discussions about covid vaccinations.
The reality of modern digital sound engineering is that a lot of good sound is lost instead of improved. The childish believe in the super natural powers of sound engineers is astonishing. I did not make many professional recordings in my life (I was a bass guitar player then) but I always had to fight for my sound with them, they had a certain concept of sound and everybody has to fit into that.
But to return to the anti-vaccination pressure groups: there is some proof that sound engineers can be able to get incredible results so Brian has a point , the proof is the famous Beatles record Abbey Road on which the sound engineers succeeded in capturing the exact sound of Paul McCartney from a stand-in, Paul was of course already dead (‘we buried Paul’) when that record was made.
Joined: 09 Oct 2012 Posts: 722 Location: Hereford, UK
Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2023 12:49 am Post subject:
Dieter Z wrote:
I don't have a recording of myself on YouTube, only one on my laptop as a mp4 file. Not sure how I could post that.
Putting it in Google Drive and posting a link to the file here might be the easiest option - just make sure you've set it to give access to anyone who has the link. BTW, YouTube also has various accessibility options (which it prompts you to choose from every time you upload a video) so you can use it to host a video which you can share the link to without otherwise 'broadcasting' it.
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2023 9:26 am Post subject:
I love the sound from both Daws and Gansch, neither of whom I've heard live. I did have the great pleasure of hearing Phil Smith live and it was mind-boggling how beautiful he sounded.
It strikes me as a curiosity that so much of this thread has been about recording technology when the craft of brass playing is all but defined by the lifelong pursuit to make an ever better sound. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart
Joined: 26 Aug 2015 Posts: 19 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2024 9:48 am Post subject:
mograph wrote:
My guess?
Hardware aside, he might press the corners slightly more inward (into the center), and use a slightly lower jaw, leading to a larger oral cavity. More 0 than O, in other words.
But that's just what works for me right now, so YMMV.
If the aperture is too large then there is less lip in the mouthpiece. You can get more air through but you need it to vibrate the decreased amount of lip tissue. A bigger sound is when these are in balance and that's for individual experimentation. Too large and too small an aperture will both tend to thin the sound.
Joined: 26 Aug 2015 Posts: 19 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2024 9:53 am Post subject:
delano wrote:
shofarguy wrote:
Both of the cornet players have wonderful tone, for sure.
It seems apparent that the British player has significant post production sound engineering behind his final product and more effort to acquire the recording, i.e. sound equipment and use of it. The German player is in a pretty common sounding acoustic space with little sound engineering in post.
For me, this means that comparing the two is pretty useless beyond the enjoyment level, as far as tone production is concerned.
Years ago, Flip Oakes played some recordings of a pretty famous cornet player that will remain unnamed here. He sounded good! Then, Flip told me that he had gone to hear the player in concert (or possibly in studio) and described his sound as scrawny and not very resonant. Flip's point is that sound engineers are worth their weight in gold and can turn mediocre tone quality into something special, if they're good at what they do. That is not to say that the Brish fellow has mediocre tone quality. It is to say that we cannot judge everything by recordings.
Peter Bond's demonstration, from the clip above, gives us a chance to make a comparison within a single video and with a single player. He produces both a bad sound and good sound. We gain from this type of contrast, even though Peter was probably only using his cell phone on a music stand to record the clip.
???? I see only superficial speculation here. Both the clips of Daws and Hans Gansch seem to be made in a live performance. At least no fancy clips at all. I see no reason that the first clip is heavily edited nor that the second is not.
Further, if you consider it therefore useless to compare these clips we all have to accept that any comparison or comment on any recorded piece of music is useless from now on. In Hollannd we eeecall that: throwing away the kid with the bathing water.
Then, a famous (unnamed!) cornet player who can’t play? Just regular musician’s gossip? And do you realise, that using Flips’ quote in this context connected with your assumption that mr. Daws clip was heavily post production engineered, form together an accusation or at least a suspicion of cheating?
That it is quite possible he has a mediocre sound that is upgraded by a sound engineer?
And ‘probably’ (there we go again) mr. Bonds’ clips are not edited. I don’t think so either but mr. Bond write books and seems professionally involved with teaching so you and I both can’t be sure about that. The consequence of your own words makes the whole video of mr. Bond useless at least for comparing the different sounds. There may be no differences, only another setting of a few buttons.
I don't know about comparisons but I saw David Daws live and without amplification during his cornet playing days and his sound was stunning and his playing brilliant and error free.
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Posts: 5299 Location: Central Texas
Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2024 7:44 am Post subject:
Not cornet related at all, but with regards to recordings vs. live, I used to think Doc sounded fantastic on his recordings, especially famous Command label recordings from the 60's... then I heard him live, already in his 90s, and... jaw-dropping how unbelievably good he sounded straight out of the bell. I can't even imagine what that experience would have been like when he was in his decades wide 'prime' era.
So, I don't expect sound engineers to be making someone sound better than they really are..... they can 'fix' mistakes, or balance an ensemble better perhaps, but as far as tone quality, I'm inclined to think the live experience would nearly always have the advantage in sound quality. _________________ "Music is like candy, you throw the (w)rappers away."
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