Becoming a professional without a music degree

[altamira_28]

I saw this thread tonight, and was intrigued. I, too, am in the Army bands, but unlike some of my brethren that posted, have college experience in my belt. A LOT of it. College prepared me for this job like you would not believe. It got me comfortable in all genres, which, as an Army musician, you just need to know. Just on my CURRENT assignment, I've played in a dixie / trad band, jazz orchestra, wind ensemble, brass quintet, brass ensemble, and the rock band.

Does this guarantee me promotion? No frickin' way. Being a good worker means just as much. I have collateral duties, and need to do those competently as well. College actually prepared me for that, too. Working full time, music major full time... damn, guys, I'm glad that particular part of my life is over. I wouldn't trade anything for it. It's made me a very efficient worker, and (without tooting my own...) a very decent and versatile trumpet player.

I did gigs for my trumpet instructor while I was in college. They were mainly lead / split lead gigs, but I got a few legit gigs, too. They were hand-me-downs, but fantastic learning experiences. Not every college is situated for good gigs, but have great faculty.

My main weakness was my ride chops. Since I've been in, I've corrected the hell out of that, and my range is steadily increasing as well. I also play in at least four groups here outside of the Army, and like was stated before, will be more than glad to pass off a trumpet gig to someone other than myself that needs it, with no hesitation whatsoever.

There is a healthy balance to be had between street ed and college ed. I've gotten as much (if not more) street ed in the Army bands on combo and improv playing than I ever did in college. Keep in mind that I was classically trained, and my music school had NO jazz program, just a jazz band. I wouldn't give that experience up for anything, however, and maintain that you will learn all you need to learn if you're open enough to receive the knowledge.

Long answer to a relatively short question. You just need to decide what you hold most dear, and go for that, brother.

All my best,

Josh
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[Don Belcher]

I'll chime in on this. Having been out of school and playing for years without a degree. As you are looking for "day jobs" and yes you'll need one unless you live in a major city and are the first call player for every group that needs a player the degree will help. It shows that you are capable of working through a long term project, willing to jump through the hoops and that you can follow directions.

Is a degree required? As many have said no it is not. But later in life (about 40) you'll find yourself back in school with 18 year olds going crazy at all the high school drama junk.
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[Teus Nobel]

[kentjames]

I know several people who eek out a living in the music business. Traveling bands, mainly driving, not flying. Some of the best musicians I know are
retired military band members. These retired military players are
really, really good

[Bill Ortiz]

The vast majority of musicians that I've worked with over my career didn't have a music degree. I work in the non-classical world, so I would bet in that genre the opposite might be true.

That being said, a music degree is a great thing to have, as long as you remember that it's just a piece of the puzzle-much of what you will need to learn is found in the working environment.
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[Adam V]

[mograph]

We saw Terence Blanchard and his e-collective last week, and of course they were amazing.

His drummer studied architecture, and his guitarist went to Stanford for agriculture. Blanchard did comment that he was the only one in his band who went to music school.

... for what it's worth.
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Playing for fun since 1979.
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Into that jazz devil music

[andybharms]

I didn’t read all the replies, but as a college teacher who teaches majors and also at a college that doesn’t even have a music degree option…

My non majors are wonderful, brilliant people, and I love working with them. They don’t/can’t put the work in that’s necessary to be successful as a professional musician. You can do everything right and still not “break out” as a musician. It’s a confluence of fanatical preparation, good decisions, resources, and luck. I would think that would be a tall order without the structure, connections, and external push that attending college for music would provide.
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[trickg]

I'm surprised that I didn't post to this thread when it first came around in 2013 because being a musician who never obtained a music degree, or any degree for that matter, it perhaps gives me some perspective, and the topic is IMO still relevant.

So, I don't have a music degree - I mentioned that above. I have a gigged for money since I was 17, and I spent 22 years worth of time in various aspects of the military band program, starting first by being in a base band, then going to a special military band with the Old Guard Fife & Drum Corps as a bugler, and then finally finishing my military band career with a couple of stints in the National Guard band program.

I have ALWAYS regretted that I didn't go to college for music. I've gigged a lot, and I'm a solid player, but I also know that when I look across my career with the things that I have done, I have a lot of holes in both my musical knowledge and ability, and I've had to work around those - there are gigs that I simply can't do because I either don't have the chops or I don't have the knowledge.

This doesn't mean that I can't or couldn't have worked to fill in those gaps on my own, but I think that most of those gaps would have been filled in had I gone through a rigorous program at a conservatory with instructors kicking my butt along the way to make sure that my technique was fully rounded out, and that I developed things like the ability to read changes and solo in a jazz setting. I "can" do it, but not very well.

It's a personal flaw of mine that I tend to be a "path of least resistance" kind of a guy, and I never addressed some of those gaps in my playing because for the gigging I wanted to do, I didn't really need to, but in hindsight I know I could have done more with it if I had gone through the process of getting a music degree.

I know - your milage may vary - for anyone on the fence about whether or not they think they need to get the degree, just go do it - even if you don't wind up being any better than you would have otherwise been, at least you have the pedigree that shows that you paid your academic dues.
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[Croquethed]

In his book of essays, Palm Sunday, Kurt Vonnegut made an interesting observation about formal instruction and those who "make it," within the context of gradutate education in writing (MFA).

I forget whether it was Vonnegut himself or a colleague who laid out a basic triage scenario - that about a third of the class was so talented and so driven they would find ways to get published and make a living no matter if they went to school or not. Another third simply did not have the chops, and no matter what they did, they would not be successful

The real value of the MFA, he said, was for that middle third, those with fairly good chops but for whom the formal structure and networking was the difference.

That may or may not translate to music, but as a rock critic, I met lots of succesful musicians who were not music majors. I think jazz trumpet may be way more rarified, but if you have enough chops, charm and chutzpah, it can happen...with a little luck.

[kehaulani]

I spent a lifetime as a full-time professional musician. I worked in a variety of musical fields - Classical, Jazz, Soul, Pop - on trumpet, French Horn, composer, arranger, conductor, flute, S, A, T saxes. I have a DMA. I never regretted my formal education and, yet, never had a job because I had a Doctorate.

I worked with others with Doctorates and with others with no higher education, at all. Great drummer Ed Soph was an English major. Great lead trumpeter Galen Jeter was a Biology Major. Another friend of mine played with the Philadelphia Orch. for at least 40 years has a non-Music Degree. (He couldn't pass theory-go figure). The list goes on.

I have also had a lot of colleagues with no formal musical education, certainly not at the university level yet they blew their a**es off.

Whether, and how much formal education one needs, depends on the kind of musical fields you want to get hired in. In educational and most orchestral positions, a formal education is just the starting point. In popular-music fields it's just how you play.

I'll say this, regardless of the aspect of music you want to perform in - you will never have a condensation of many teachers from all musical disciplines in such a concentrated time and space as you will in music school. So, you can shorten your learning time, considerably.

Regarding my Doctorate, I got that for ME. I wanted the extra knowledge, not for job qualification.

Now, as an aside, I read on internet forums and in other conversations, a reverse snobbery regarding higher education - the "educated idiot' syndrome, and while there certainly are those whose heads are in the clouds so much that practicality is at a loss - and there are those educated people who look down their noses on the "unwashed masses", I'm convinced that most of the people who are guilty of this reverse prejudice are just trying to cover up their own insecurities. So be careful what you read and make sure it's recieved for all the right reasons.

One word about costs. IMO, educational costs in this country have spiraled out of control. You can't "just" go to school anymore; you need to have a masterful plan on how to organize your debt. Community colleges and state colleges should be looked at first. School financial aid and work-study programs. Working for a year as a "civilian" in order to qualify for in-state tuition if it's i a school outside your district. Have a plan that is wide-eyed open.

(Wow. Captain Kirk lives.)
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[peanuts56]

Rob Mathes, the most gifted musician I've ever met in my life has no degree. He started out at Berklee but didn't finish. He did study orchestration and counterpoint privately with Myron Fink.
Rob is the son of 2 classically trained musicians.
Rob has written, arranged and produced for a list that's longer than Al Capone's rap sheet. He's won an Emmy for music direction of The Kennedy Center Awards Show. He was nominated for a Tony for orchestrating the music for Sting's Broadway Musical.
One evening a few years back I was watching The Grammy Awards. Springsteen was performing, I noticed a familiar figure conducting a string section. It was Rob. The man is so gifted it's almost scary. Nicest guy as well and proud to call him a friend. Just saw him a few days ago.
BTW. Several times I've had the opportunity to meet Jimmy Webb. He told me the most gifted musician he's ever met is Glen Campbell. The man couldn't read music and carved out an incredible career. Jimmy also told me that Rob is in his top 5. Degree!!! We don't need no stinking degree!!!!!!

[peanuts56]

[Dayton]

Going back to the original question of 10 years ago....

[kehaulani]

[Jeff_Purtle]

Link

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[spitvalve]

I have a piece of paper from a reputable university that says I know how to play trumpet. It has never gotten me any gigs. How I play is what got me the gigs I've played.
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Bryan Fields
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[kehaulani]

How inspirational. Thank you, Jeff.
I would love to know how his family (Korean?) landed on Manhattan's lower east side versus, e.g., California or Hawai'i..
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[stuartissimo]