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MusickMartin
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Joined: 20 May 2023
Posts: 28
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 Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2023 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| Thank you Doug! Thats interesting, good to know. If I was going to buy one additional deeper mouthpiece to get a more mellow sound and make playing a bit more comfortable in the lower register, is the advice mostly to go with the same rim size (and shape?) as my lead piece or could it be completely alright having different sized rims? |
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juanc
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Joined: 05 Sep 2012
Posts: 117
Location: Greenville, SC
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| Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2024 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike Sailors wrote: | | juanc wrote: | | Mike Sailors wrote: | | IIIa here. I play Bach 3 rims and larger. I have gone back and forth between 3 and 5 size rims, but I always come back to the 3. It feels and sounds better. |
Hello Mike, are you still playing Warburton 5S? |
Not so much anymore. I do like it my cornet, oddly enough, so when I play my old Besson 2-20 I'll have it in.
I've been playing one of Trent Austin's pieces for a bit. It's very nice. It's his 3DS. |
Hey Mike, are you playing only the top or one piece. I love my 5S but sometimes I like to try new pieces.
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Mike Sailors
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Joined: 30 Oct 2012
Posts: 1838
Location: Austin/New York City
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| Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| juanc wrote: | | Mike Sailors wrote: | | juanc wrote: | | Mike Sailors wrote: | | IIIa here. I play Bach 3 rims and larger. I have gone back and forth between 3 and 5 size rims, but I always come back to the 3. It feels and sounds better. |
Hello Mike, are you still playing Warburton 5S? |
Not so much anymore. I do like it my cornet, oddly enough, so when I play my old Besson 2-20 I'll have it in.
I've been playing one of Trent Austin's pieces for a bit. It's very nice. It's his 3DS. |
Hey Mike, are you playing only the top or one piece. I love my 5S but sometimes I like to try new pieces. |
I'm back on a Greg Black 5m. Maybe one day I'll pick one thing and stick with it 
FWIW - The Warburton 5s I sometimes play is a two-piece. The bb is a Q.
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Destructo
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Joined: 18 Apr 2022
Posts: 174
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| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2024 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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I'm a IIIA and have worked out that mouthpiece diameter really seems to mess with my chops in exactly the way Doug Elliott said. The smaller I go, the more I find getting a full sound in the lower register leads me to doing all sorts of weird stuff. The smaller I go, if I follow the sound, the more my horn angle wants to come down, and my jaw wants to reverse. Would probably be fine if I only wanted to play from say middle G up or only needed an occasional low note.
It seems to be that the wider the rim, the less my lower jaw has to move for the low register. Smaller also doesn't really seem to do all that much to help the upper register as far as I can tell.
I never realized this was a "type" thing though. Always though it was because I had big lips or something |
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MusickMartin
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Joined: 20 May 2023
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2024 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Interesting! Bought used two GR mouthpieces with rim size 66 (ish bach 3) today, one of them is a lead piece. Excited to see if it will help me be more comfortable in the lower register, without making the higher register more difficult. |
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Doug Elliott
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Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 1172
Location: Silver Spring, MD
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| Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2024 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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The IIIA mouthpiece size effect is true for a IIIA who is playing correctly as a IIIA.
It's not nearly as true for a IIIA who is not playing correctly, for example someone who plays part or most of the time with IIIB mechanics but should be a IIIA. And that's quite common.
So what's important is first to play with correct IIIA mechanics, and help that out with a mouthpiece diameter big enough to encourage keeping it that way.
Although there are certainly IIIA's that are successful on small mouthpieces, if they keep their mechanics correct. |
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MusickMartin
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Joined: 20 May 2023
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2024 1:52 am Post subject: |
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| I've seen some very good professional players who say they are IIIA (or for some of them i've just read people guessing that they are), and i know what distinguishes a IIIA from a IIIB is that they move their lips and mouthpiece up when they ascend. But i've also read people talking about for a IIIA to play correctly, they have to put the jaw forward for the higher register and recede in the lower register. It seems like many of these professionals often put the horn up in the lower register and therefore putting their jaw forward a bit. Seems to work, but is that considered not correct IIIA mechanics? (They also seems to put the jaw forward again in the higher register) |
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juanc
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Joined: 05 Sep 2012
Posts: 117
Location: Greenville, SC
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2024 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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I've found over the years that I can't switch for a IIIB, since day One (when I discovered the Encyclopedia) I knew I was a IIIA and last year Chris LaBarbera confirmed that. I've played many mouthpieces over the years and I think the best advice is to know what works and what does not, my "sweet spot" is around a Bach 5, I still can play rim diameters one size smaller or bigger than this but that's it, I didn't even waste time trying a 10 1/2 or a 1 1/2 equivalent. Hey Mike, I'm back on a Karl Hammond 6S! I use the 5S top with Ken Titmus backbones (RT2 & GG).
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Destructo
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Joined: 18 Apr 2022
Posts: 174
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| Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2024 6:45 am Post subject: |
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| MusickMartin wrote: | | I've seen some very good professional players who say they are IIIA (or for some of them i've just read people guessing that they are), and i know what distinguishes a IIIA from a IIIB is that they move their lips and mouthpiece up when they ascend. But i've also read people talking about for a IIIA to play correctly, they have to put the jaw forward for the higher register and recede in the lower register. It seems like many of these professionals often put the horn up in the lower register and therefore putting their jaw forward a bit. Seems to work, but is that considered not correct IIIA mechanics? (They also seems to put the jaw forward again in the higher register) |
In Reinhardt terms, jaw should recede as you descend but a lot of players do pit the jaw forward down low.
That said, some of what you see in terms of the instrument angle is not actually what it looks like because the teeth aren't flat and people usually open the teeth down low (whether or not they are meant to).
Just back on the Mouthpiece subject, one thing I will add is that if you want to player a smaller Mouthpiece, one thing that does really help is a so called "lay rim" where the highpoint is towards the outside. The Bergeron mouthpiece from GR has one for example. This puts the spot the Mouthpiece hits the teeth out in that Bach 3-1 territory but gives you the efficiency of less cup volume without necessarily going super shallow. I have some custom pieces around a Bach 5 inner diameter that have a high point probably at a Bach 1, and it feels like that's where I want the.legs to go, but without having to play a 1 size all the time. I find i can go between a Pickett 1 ID and a Bach 5 ID with the Bergeron rim, and they both feel right. But if I try and play on even a 3 size,.it feels a little bit l
constricting.
So if those GRs don't work out, you might find the Bergeron model or something similar worth a try |
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