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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12664
Location: Gardena, Ca
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 Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Y’all know that by loosening the set screw in the stop rod mounting base you can remove or swap out the stop rod in about two minutes, right? |
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improver
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Posts: 1455
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| I bought a newish 37 that belonged to Jeremy Davenport. He had the 3rd rod removed and put in a stop screw. It plays great. |
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Dale Proctor
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005
Posts: 9367
Location: Heart of Dixie
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| RETrumpet wrote: | | …Those horns use a one piece third slide (no dump slide) so a water key was required and the stop pin was brought over from the C trumpet models (which Bach has used since at least the Mt. Vernon days). Amaods are "modern" and, again, lighter and can also help with notes where the nodal point may otherwise land on the cork (which is a bigger issue in the upper register). |
FYI, I bought a new Bach Stradivarius C trumpet in 1983, and it has no stop system on the 3rd valve slide, neither rod nor pin.
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"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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RETrumpet
Veteran Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2021
Posts: 210
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Dale Proctor wrote: |
FYI, I bought a new Bach Stradivarius C trumpet in 1983, and it has no stop system on the 3rd valve slide, neither rod nor pin. |
Interesting. I just looked up some early Elkharts and they didn't have them either. I guess the ones I saw were aftermarket additions.
I stand corrected.
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Bb: FrankenBach, '72 Committee, Conn 22B, King 2070SGX
C: Bach 229-MK slide/pipe, Bach 226 with YTR-9445(2) pipe
D/Eb: Bach 239 with YTR-9636 pipe
Picc: Stomvi Master, Couesnon Monopole
Cornet: Schilke A2C, '23 Buescher
Flugel: Scodwell Prototype |
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homebilly
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2010
Posts: 2198
Location: Venice, CA & Paris, France
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| LittleRusty wrote: | | Y’all know that by loosening the set screw in the stop rod mounting base you can remove or swap out the stop rod in about two minutes, right? |
i always wondered if people knew this
its just a tiny hex bolt in there
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ron meza (deadbeat jazz musician) & (TH 5 post ghost neighborhood watch ringleader)
waiting for Fed-Ex to deliver a $50 trumpet to my door. shipping was prepaid by seller of course!
http://ronmeza.com
http://highdefinitionbigband.com |
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Andy Cooper
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001
Posts: 1833
Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:34 am Post subject: |
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Just thinking - if they made the rod out of stainless steel it would be less inclined to bend out of shape - though I wonder if it would change the sound and or vibrate more. Might need a heavy weight end nut.
Second thought - if you were content with a more limited adjustment range, why not make a rod that is just threaded on the ends with the middle unthreaded. When it bends, the the unthreaded rod would not be as noisy against the mount. You could shorten the throw with a nylon spacer and rubber washer before the end nut. |
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homebilly
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2010
Posts: 2198
Location: Venice, CA & Paris, France
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 8:52 am Post subject: |
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| Andy Cooper wrote: |
Second thought - if you were content with a more limited adjustment range, why not make a rod that is just threaded on the ends with the middle unthreaded. When it bends, the the unthreaded rod would not be as noisy against the mount. You could shorten the throw with a nylon spacer and rubber washer before the end nut. |
this is also something that i have wondered
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ron meza (deadbeat jazz musician) & (TH 5 post ghost neighborhood watch ringleader)
waiting for Fed-Ex to deliver a $50 trumpet to my door. shipping was prepaid by seller of course!
http://ronmeza.com
http://highdefinitionbigband.com |
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RandyTX
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2010
Posts: 5299
Location: Central Texas
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| RETrumpet wrote: | | Dale Proctor wrote: |
FYI, I bought a new Bach Stradivarius C trumpet in 1983, and it has no stop system on the 3rd valve slide, neither rod nor pin. |
Interesting. I just looked up some early Elkharts and they didn't have them either. I guess the ones I saw were aftermarket additions.
I stand corrected. |
I have an old Bach Eb/D longbell, that didn't have a stop rod of any kind either when I got it (used). I sent it off to Charlie Melk for some other tweaks, and while he had it, he put a stop rod in, more of the 'Yamaha' style with the pin. Works fine.
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"Music is like candy, you throw the (w)rappers away." |
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JHirakawa
Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Mar 2022
Posts: 155
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 10:00 am Post subject: |
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A little off the topic but this is what I did so I don't lose a stop rod nut on my Chicago Benge. I put a small o-ring on the rod. I dropped a nut once when I was cleaning the horn. It bounced on my hardwood floor and I had to search for a long time before I found it. My horn tech told me it was a good thing that I did find it because it's very hard, if not impossible, to find a nut that fits that particular rod. It doesn't affect the way the horn plays as far as I can tell. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Stop_rod_o-ring.jpg
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Kanstul FB Classic b-flat&C
'42 Buescher 205
'45 Martin Committee
'48 Chi Benge
'47 Conn 22b
'69 Olds Custom Crafted
'47 Holton 48
'64 Bach Strad Cornet
'62 Olds Spl Cornet
'64 Conn 80a
'54 Conn 34a
Benge flugel
Olds, DEG Bugles |
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cheiden
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 8914
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| JHirakawa wrote: | | A little off the topic but this is what I did so I don't lose a stop rod nut on my Chicago Benge. I put a small o-ring on the rod. I dropped a nut once when I was cleaning the horn. It bounced on my hardwood floor and I had to search for a long time before I found it. My horn tech told me it was a good thing that I did find it because it's very hard, if not impossible, to find a nut that fits that particular rod. It doesn't affect the way the horn plays as far as I can tell. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Stop_rod_o-ring.jpg |
On my Bach horns I've also used a tiny rubber o-ring to prevent the nut from coming off. I've also used the same size o-ring to prevent the slide from clunking at the end of travel. The one time I was called on to play Carmen I just adjusted my conventional stop rod all the way out and practiced kicking out both slides and lipping it down. Worked out surprisingly well.
On the subject of quieting slides, my Holton ST-302 came with thin nylon washers on the tubes themselves to reduce the noise when pulling the slide in. Those have long since fallen apart and I haven't bothered replacing them.
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"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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Dale Proctor
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005
Posts: 9367
Location: Heart of Dixie
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| Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2022 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| cheiden wrote: | | JHirakawa wrote: | | A little off the topic but this is what I did so I don't lose a stop rod nut on my Chicago Benge. I put a small o-ring on the rod. I dropped a nut once when I was cleaning the horn. It bounced on my hardwood floor and I had to search for a long time before I found it. My horn tech told me it was a good thing that I did find it because it's very hard, if not impossible, to find a nut that fits that particular rod. It doesn't affect the way the horn plays as far as I can tell. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Stop_rod_o-ring.jpg |
On my Bach horns I've also used a tiny rubber o-ring to prevent the nut from coming off. I've also used the same size o-ring to prevent the slide from clunking at the end of travel. The one time I was called on to play Carmen I just adjusted my conventional stop rod all the way out and practiced kicking out both slides and lipping it down. Worked out surprisingly well.
On the subject of quieting slides, my Holton ST-302 came with thin nylon washers on the tubes themselves to reduce the noise when pulling the slide in. Those have long since fallen apart and I haven't bothered replacing them. |
Old Conns had an adjustable double bumper setup on the stop rod that silenced the slide when moving it either direction. They also had an end nut to make sure nothing could fall off. That’s the best design I’ve seen.
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"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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JHirakawa
Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Mar 2022
Posts: 155
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| Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2022 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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My 1947 Holton Model 48 came with 2 movable nuts on the 3rd slide rod plus two fiber o-rings to buffer the slide in both directions. The rod also has a nut that is attached to the end.
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Kanstul FB Classic b-flat&C
'42 Buescher 205
'45 Martin Committee
'48 Chi Benge
'47 Conn 22b
'69 Olds Custom Crafted
'47 Holton 48
'64 Bach Strad Cornet
'62 Olds Spl Cornet
'64 Conn 80a
'54 Conn 34a
Benge flugel
Olds, DEG Bugles |
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trompette229
Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2016
Posts: 203
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| Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2022 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Andy Cooper wrote: | Just thinking - if they made the rod out of stainless steel it would be less inclined to bend out of shape - though I wonder if it would change the sound and or vibrate more. Might need a heavy weight end nut.
Second thought - if you were content with a more limited adjustment range, why not make a rod that is just threaded on the ends with the middle unthreaded. When it bends, the the unthreaded rod would not be as noisy against the mount. You could shorten the throw with a nylon spacer and rubber washer before the end nut. |
What you are suggesting are available from several makers!
http://www.frostcustombrass.net/stoprods.html |
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MalinTrumpet
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 545
Location: Delray Beach, Florida
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2022 8:15 am Post subject: |
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Whenever I played Carmen I would extend the dump slide and pull out the regular 3rd slide which would put the 3rd slide a half step lower e.g. low g-2/3, f#-1/3, f-1/2/3. I practiced the passage with these fingerings and it always worked fine.
LCM |
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bebiperez
Regular Member
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2023 9:28 am Post subject: |
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Has anyone compared differences in playability with or without the stop rod? I have a Bach 37 and a CarolBrass, they both seem to respond easier without the stop rod... Or maybe I'm just experiencing placebo effect  |
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plankowner110
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 3620
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Jimbosan
Regular Member
Joined: 15 Dec 2023
Posts: 47
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2024 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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It should be easy to just straighten the rod. Just be careful. PS: My horn tech warned me that the pitch/dia of the rod on my Benge was unusal and he may have to replace the rod if I lost a nut. I put a small rubber o-ring on the end of the rod on my Chicago Benge just to be safe.
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Kanstul FBClassic bflat&C
'42 Buescher205
'45 Committee
'47 Holton48
'47 Conn22b
'48 Benge
'69 Olds Custom Crafted
'78 Getzen Eterna
'64 Bach Strad Cornet
'62 Olds Spl Cornet
'64 Conn 80a
'54 Conn 34a
Benge flugel
Olds,DEG Bugles |
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