There's a guy in my area that I'm going to contact. Meanwhile, a different question. There's a song (Sleepy Lagoon), that I'm working on. First 5 notes; starts at C below the staff, goes to D, 1st line E, 2nd line G then "jumps" to 4th space E. Having a problem jumping from G to E. Will practicing lip slurs help that? Say, especially practicing from low C to 3rd space C; & beyond that more difficult, from low C to 4th space E? Thanks
Having a problem jumping from G to E. Will practicing lip slurs help that? Say, especially practicing from low C to 3rd space C; & beyond that more difficult, from low C to 4th space E? Thanks
In the answer to your question lives an entire world.
The short answer is yes. The longer answer is: one of the bases for brass playing is the ability to traverse the overtone series (partials) with relative ease. One of the problems that brass players run into is thinking of going from G to E as "jumping," as you have described it. Instead we should think of it as a continuum of vibration. So G to E is not G then E; rather, it is G with an incredibly quick glissando to E -- just like singing.
Practice connecting notes with glissandi, which is easier in the downward direction than upward. When practicing in the upwards direction, focus on great vibration on the note and imagine the vibration continuing between the notes too in order to not compromise the beginning of the next note.
Very tough to write out, but hopefully you get the idea.
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:25 am Post subject:
55Yr Comback wrote:
There's a guy in my area that I'm going to contact. Meanwhile, a different question. There's a song (Sleepy Lagoon), that I'm working on. First 5 notes; starts at C below the staff, goes to D, 1st line E, 2nd line G then "jumps" to 4th space E. Having a problem jumping from G to E. Will practicing lip slurs help that? Say, especially practicing from low C to 3rd space C; & beyond that more difficult, from low C to 4th space E? Thanks
Could be many reasons for this problem. Diagnosing this via the internet would be guessing. _________________ Bill Bergren
Yeah, I get the concept. It's like gliding through in my example from G to E as if C didn't exist? I'm thinking that it takes abdominal compression as well as arching the tongue?
Yeah, I get the concept. It's like gliding through in my example from G to E as if C didn't exist? I'm thinking that it takes abdominal compression as well as arching the tongue?
Maybe! I mainly focus on making sure vibration continues and that air is able to flow through the lips all in the context of a good sound. If it feels like you're working too hard, you likely are.
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3308 Location: Endwell NY USA
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 2:54 pm Post subject:
55Yr Comback wrote:
... I'm thinking that it takes abdominal compression as well as arching the tongue?
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Each note / pitch / loudness / articulation / etc. has its own particular feel and requirements.
A key item is slow practice WITH GOOD SOUND of the notes so you develop the ingrained habitual feel for them - so you know 'where they are' and you 'automatically' make the adjustments for them.
I wouldn't recommend even thinking about details like 'abdominal compression' yet - maybe just 'blow a little harder'.
For 'tongue arch' just use it as a way to help get your lips and jaw into the position that 'works' with the notes.
If you find yourself depending on high mpc rim pressure, or tightly stretched lips, then you're on the wrong track.
It's not a question of 'muscular strength' or 'pain tolerance' it's a learned skill that is not necessarily 'easy to learn or obvious', but it's pretty 'simple' when done correctly.
And finding a teacher who can really demonstrate or explain things can be a huge help. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3308 Location: Endwell NY USA
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 2:56 pm Post subject:
abontrumpet wrote:
..making sure vibration continues and that air is able to flow through the lips all in the context of a good sound. ...
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Yep! Simple but not always easy. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
..making sure vibration continues and that air is able to flow through the lips all in the context of a good sound. ...
--------------------------
Yep! Simple but not always easy.
Simple AND easy.
I'm going to get a little granular and psychological: The idea that it isn't always supposed to be easy allows developing players to do "funky" things because they think there is supposed to be a "hard and arduous process" to achieve "simplicity and ease." It's a balancing act, developing players should be looking for that ease, but not be discouraged if they don't find it immediately. To achieve it regularly, they should be working in their "ease and comfort zone" about 70% of the time and only 30% of practice should be in their "challenging zone." That helps develop those strong neural connections that will default in "simplicity and ease" rather than "hard and arduous."
You guys all make sense. I think initially as a comeback player, working & playing in your comfort zone is very important; & within that zone, playing as pure & "centered" & working on good tone & mastering that, before trying to move up the ladder.
I've never watched the videos of Lynn. Below is one where he demonstrates the unfurling. It doesn't look very radical. When I play, I put the edge of my lips on the inner rim of the mouthpiece and gather the extra tissue towards the center. I got a book by Pops McLaughlin years ago and started creating an aperture tunnel. I visualize whistling and approach it the same way.
Sorry - his explanation of what happens with a "normal" embouchure - "having to overcome my own resistance", how it's difficult to "get the aperture to open" etc. is absolute nonsense. One can't simulate what happens when actually playing without the mouthpiece in place and actually playing. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
He might have meant if you clamp the lips together. I can just make a simple "M" & blow air through, so I don't get that part of his video. In fact, part of my original question was of you out there, what are your thoughts on unfurling or not unfurling & which do you use.
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3308 Location: Endwell NY USA
Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2024 5:52 am Post subject:
55Yr Comback wrote:
He might have meant ...
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Don't worry about what he might have meant, or try to find some hidden gem in the no mpc / no instrument videos.
Of course clamping the lips together too tightly doesn't work - they gotta be loose enough to vibrate at the desired pitch.
That's what ALL players are striving to accomplish. 'tight' enough to vibrate at pitch, and 'loose' enough to be able to vibrate with air flow into the mpc.
Seems like it should be easy, until too much tightness or rim pressure STOPS the vibration or air flow. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.
"That's what ALL players are striving to accomplish. 'tight' enough to vibrate at pitch, and 'loose' enough to be able to vibrate with air flow into the mpc".
That's the key, to be able to develop that "control" for lack of a better word , that preciseness, no matter what embouchure you employ (unfurled, "M", etc).
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