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Steve A Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2006 Posts: 1808 Location: Toronto, Canada
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 8:57 am Post subject: Teeth Touching Exercises - Purpose |
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Many people here will be familiar with the Cat Anderson "long G", played for 20 minutes at a whisper volume with your teeth touching, but Thomas Hooten has recently had some online masterclass content in support of his Embosure device in which he demonstrated lip buzzing with his teeth touching to develop a Maggio-inspired embouchure set.
My question is - can anyone explain what it is about having the teeth touching that makes these exercises function the way the do?
I get that there's an alignment aspect to this, and also that it makes relying on overblowing or mouthpiece pressure less effective, but I feel like there's something else going on with these exercises that I don't understand. |
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Uberopa Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Dec 2003 Posts: 931 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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Hi,
I worked on the Cat Anderson method for a number of months. I wasn't successful with it unfortunately. However, I don't think that my time was wasted. The whisper G made me more conscious of my aperture and helping me play at lower volumes. I think that the teeth touching requirement served to bring the lower jaw forward. I tended to play with a receded jaw and downward playing position. Neither of these conditions contribute to good upper register playing. So I think the teeth touching method helped eliminate these techniques.
My take only. |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3308 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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Uberopa wrote: | ... served to bring the lower jaw forward. I tended to play with a receded jaw and downward playing position. Neither of these conditions contribute to good upper register playing. ... |
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Good players USE their jaw in various manners, but I think a key item is that they do in fact 'use their jaw' - it's not a facial ornament.
Being able to control and adjust it is important. It can help control and adjust lip position and rim pressure distribution between upper and lower lips. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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jkarnes0661 Veteran Member
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 254 Location: Grand Rapids, MI
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2024 5:20 am Post subject: |
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I had the same experience of Uberopa, I didn't get much out of Cat Anderson's method but I did do the whisper G with the teeth touching every day for 4 months. That was the basis of a long development (7 years) of a second embouchure for upper register playing and I've since switched to that embouchure for all of my playing.
I've continued to do the whisper G warmup on days where I'm going to be doing a lot of upper register work but I don't follow Cat's method with the teeth touching any more. I find that doing the whisper G helps focus the muscles that form a small aperture but allows me to gently work them with a extremely low volume, in-the-staff note. I do that first thing in the morning and when I come back to the horn an hour or two later, I'm generally more efficient with my upper register playing than I am if I don't do the whisper G warm up.
Back to Steve A's original question and similar to what Uberopa said, for me, having the teeth touching was simply a way to train my embouchure with a more jaw-forward position. I also think it forced me to play at the very low whisper volume since I couldn't get a large volume of air through the aperture with my teeth touching. Once I'd established a strong set in that position I didn't feel the need to continue to have the teeth touching.
All that said, I don't have Cat's range and I know there are others that have found greater success by sticking to his method more closely. Geoff Winstead did a great job putting the revised version together and I know he's personally helped a number of people find success with Cat's method book. _________________ Jonathan Karnes
Grand Rapids, MI
jonathankarnes.com |
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kalijah Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2003 Posts: 3260 Location: Alabama
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2024 5:55 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | I couldn't get a large volume of air through the aperture with my teeth touching. |
I think you mean a large flow of air through.
I include teeth-touching exercises as part of my daily set-up activities. It encourages a "closed" but low-effort lip posture which uses the natural stiffness and elasticity of the lips in almost-relaxed state. It requires far-less typical embouchure action and engagement. This posture naturally pulsates easily and efficiently in the high register as well.
Some cannot create a tone in this posture at first attempt. It "postures" the lips a bit differently than how most commonly play.
I play slurred Clarke-type things with teeth touching. Very softly and below low C. Don't be overly concerned with the tone at first. With patient practice it will improve. Don't force it.
Other books that describe similar embouchure approach is Altissimo Trumpet playing by John Lynch and Double High C in 10 minuets by Walt Johnson. |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9032 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2024 7:49 am Post subject: |
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"I couldn't get a large volume of air through the aperture with my teeth touching."
"I think you mean a large flow of air through."
I say tomaytoe and you say tomahtoe. Come on, kalijah. Everyone doesn't speak Engineer. How about a moratorium on all of us Illiterati? _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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Steve A Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2006 Posts: 1808 Location: Toronto, Canada
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2024 8:00 am Post subject: |
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kalijah wrote: |
I include teeth-touching exercises as part of my daily set-up activities. It encourages a "closed" but low-effort lip posture which uses the natural stiffness and elasticity of the lips in almost-relaxed state. It requires far-less typical embouchure action and engagement. This posture naturally pulsates easily and efficiently in the high register as well.
Some cannot create a tone in this posture at first attempt. It "postures" the lips a bit differently than how most commonly play.
I play slurred Clarke-type things with teeth touching. Very softly and below low C. Don't be overly concerned with the tone at first. With patient practice it will improve. Don't force it.
Other books that describe similar embouchure approach is Altissimo Trumpet playing by John Lynch and Double High C in 10 minuets by Walt Johnson. |
Interesting - thank you! I'll check out those books. |
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chase1973 Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Nov 2018 Posts: 126 Location: Valdosta
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2024 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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I think it's important to first know your playing type. Are you a downstream or upstream type? Cat Anderson was an upstream type, so the jaw formation of an upstream type will vary from a downstream type. However, I always recommend you at least try it. If it works, stick with it, if not, discard and move on. |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3308 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2024 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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chase1973 wrote: | I think it's important to first know your playing type. ... |
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[silly rant]
I think that's a little backwards ...
Your best 'playing type' is determined by what 'playing method' works best for you. The descriptions of the 'playing types' revolves around what playing methods works best. If doing 'type A' methods gives best results, then you're classified as 'should be a type A' player.
[/silly rant]
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The important item is to not ignore adjustments such as jaw position, and teeth separation - there are a lot more possibilities than just upper lip rim pressure.
Yes, a 'good teacher' might be able to help you discover various adjustments that you have never considered. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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chapahi Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2005 Posts: 1467 Location: Stuttgart, Germany
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2024 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: Teeth Touching Exercises - Purpose |
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Steve A wrote: | what it is about having the teeth touching that makes these exercises function the way the do?
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I think it works because it forms the embouchure in away so that it reacts to a compressed minimal airflow. I go as far as to close my molars too. _________________ Sima, Kanstul 1525 Flugel and Kanstul pocket trumpet. Olds Super |
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Bethmike Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Jan 2020 Posts: 194 Location: NW of ORD
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Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2024 7:03 am Post subject: |
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This thread caused me to try the Cat Anderson Whisper G for the past week. I kept my teeth in their normal position. What I got out this was realizing that I often allow my upper lip support to go a bit flabby, and the Whisper G (after the first few minutes) required me to be conscious about keeping the right amount of firmness in my upper lip.
I also became more conscious of my aperture. Maybe more so than crescendo / decrescendo long tones.
After a week of this, I have done quiet, smooth, controlled 2 octave arpeggios up to Eb above the staff.
Very nice to a basement amateur / community band Trumpet 2 guy.
Mike _________________ Bach190ML43
Kanstul 1001
Bach NY7
Yamaha 631 Flugel |
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tomba51 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2001 Posts: 619 Location: Hilton Head, SC
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Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2024 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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JayKosta wrote: | chase1973 wrote: | I think it's important to first know your playing type. ... |
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[silly rant]
I think that's a little backwards ...
Your best 'playing type' is determined by what 'playing method' works best for you. The descriptions of the 'playing types' revolves around what playing methods works best. If doing 'type A' methods gives best results, then you're classified as 'should be a type A' player.
[/silly rant]
----------------------------------
The important item is to not ignore adjustments such as jaw position, and teeth separation - there are a lot more possibilities than just upper lip rim pressure.
Yes, a 'good teacher' might be able to help you discover various adjustments that you have never considered. |
Is it possible that when he asked about playing type he was referring to Donald Reinhardt's method of embouchure classifications? _________________ Tom Barreca
Last edited by tomba51 on Fri Feb 16, 2024 7:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Doug Elliott Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Oct 2006 Posts: 1172 Location: Silver Spring, MD
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Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2024 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sure that is exactly what he was referring to.
Getting back to the original question about the value of playing "at a whisper volume with your teeth touching"
Reinhardt didn't use that specific exercise, but he had some similar ideas.
Many players like to get a big sound, and do it by playing with their teeth too far apart which limits other aspects like high range development. It's nearly impossible to close down from that "too open" position because it just doesn't feel good to do that. Spending some time playing (or trying to play) at the other extreme of having the front teeth clenched "too closed" helps to train the required muscles in a more closed position. It's easier and more effective to open from that position than it is to close from the "too open" position.
That's why it's useful. |
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Steve A Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2006 Posts: 1808 Location: Toronto, Canada
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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2024 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for your thoughts, Doug - that makes a lot of sense. |
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