Uncertain Pitches

[BarryWilson]

First, a little about me:
Age: 68
Playing level: amateur
Horn: Yamaha Xeno (about 20 years old)
Mouthpieces: Curry 5C, Stomvi 5F VR #4 coupler
Practice Routine: Daily using mainly fundamentals and etudes

I have trouble with 4th space E and top line F. Starting a piece or phrase on them is dangerous because I'm more likely to miss them than nail them. The E is shakey within an arpeggio going either up or down but especially down. The F is scary usually just when starting on it. Now, I can nail the third line D or the above the fifth line G...or Ab, or A...justin. I recently played another horn (a 1970 Bach Mercedes) with which this problem did not happen. Sooo, do the gentlemen of the forum think this is a fault with my Xeno or do I need to do something technique-wise? Yes, I work the E and F every day with scales and etudes. Yes, I imagine the pitch in my head before playing.
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Barry Wilson
Hodges, SC
Yamaha YTR 8310ZII Bobby Shew Custom
Yamaha YTR 8335 Gen I Xeno (Back up horn)
Yamaha Bobby Shew Flugel
Leblanc Paris C

[Doug Elliott]

1. Disassemble and clean out your horn thoroughly and make sure there's nothing in it like maybe a paperclip that crawled up through the bell.
2. Have somebody else play your horn to see if it's you or the horn.
3. If it's not the horn, you may be playing low range and high range differently and the problem notes are where you're making the switch. Maybe upstream and downstream. I do Skype lessons and can help with that.

[Andy Cooper]

Maybe this is the problem.

https://trumpet.cloud/mpc/index.html?mpc1id=VA004987&mpc2id=VB014000&backcolor=blue

The Xeno was designed for the Yamaha mouthpiece. As I remember, Curry's extend a little deeper into the receiver - like a Schilke.

You may have a mouthpiece/receiver gap problem.
https://bobreeves.com/blog/this-one-simple-trick-can-make-trumpet-easier/

You might try a yamaha 14C4 mouthpiece. Should that be better, you could have a 5C cut for Reeves sleeves to match the Yamaha gap.

[Dayton]

You have a few mouthpieces. Does it happen regardless of which mouthpiece you use?

If you play a C scale starting on low C and continue up to the G above the staff and then back down, what happens with the E and the F? Do they come out cleanly or not? If not, is the problem both up and down?

If you are playing the E open, try the above again using 1 & 2 for the fourth space E, and again using just 3. Does the E come out ok, or is it still an issue? Similarly, you can try playing the above with the F atop the staff fingered 1 & 3 vice just 1. Still a problem?

[Richard III]

When you asked the same question in 2021.

https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=157906&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
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Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[Bachatit]

Those notes are in what I consider my "transition" range between high and low. The problem of bracking/cracking the notes does not exist above or below the transition for me. What I speculate is that the firmness outside the aperature is set "too low" for that midrange and results in unpredicable note reproduction. Now, when I enter the mid-range I try to "set" more like the notes above, ie. keep appropriate firmness, and have had excellent results. Doesn't happen overnight but takes many, many months to see results. Best

[Shark01]

I struggle with the top line F and the B above that more than anything else as an entrance note.

[matthes93401]

I've become a fan of The Breathing Gym and The Brass Gym, both from the same authors. It's designed to help you get centered. In the Brass Gym, there are note bend exercises that can be very helpful in finding the sweet spot of notes. Also mentally, if you can imagine the pitch in your mind and think about placing the notes.

[Christian K. Peters]

Hello all,
I really don't think it is a gap problem. I don't know the mouthpieces in question, so I can't type to that, either. I play with similar folks in community groups, and attribute what Barry is describing, as performance confidence, for a lack of a better description. this could be age or health related. I would continue scales, etudes and arpeggio work, with a focus on the 4th and 5th partial. Familiarity with the notes in question, on that equipment should get better. My nemesis is the A just above the staff. I just need to keep working on the centering of that note to keep it consistent. For those who want to fix it for me, 3rd valve is my cheat.
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Christian K. Peters
Schilke Loyalist since 1976

[JayKosta]

[zaferis]

yes, there are notes that don't start or slot as cleanly as most, this can vary a little from player to player, horn to horn. The top line F is a common one. C# above the staff is a particularly odd one for me.

I have a concern with your mouthpiece setup. Curry mouthpieces are slightly longer (total length) than most others. I found that when I had one cut for sleeves that it did not take this into account - in essence shortening the design, which takes the mouthpiece out of balance. Mark designed them that way for a reason (I can't tell you why) but if you change the length it certainly won't perform the same, and I'd bet against it being an improvement. I would try a stock Curry mouthpiece and see if this helps a little.
I've also not been happy with mouthpieces cut for sleeves - the added connecting mechanism (rubber grommet) has an impact on tone / playability.
Could also try a Yamaha mouthpiece. like a 14B4 to see if that changes things.

Then like everything else, we must practice those things that challenge us daily .

With a 20 year old instrument, you may also have the receiver checked for wear (proper mouthpiece fit), valves checked for alignment, and the instrument checked for leaks / compression - could be just "loose" enough to make it harder for things to slot.
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Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman

[Andy Del]

Almost every single post had blamed your trumpet or mouthpiece. Rather than do that, why not look at your playing from the utmost of basics and go from there? (Sure - clean your gear, but that's it)

Look at your breathing. Basic issue - hitting notes = basic breathing - FILL up, and MOVE air faster. See what happens.

Look at your basic chop setup. Can you buzz without a mpc.? Work on it, despite what many will say, lip buzzing saved my playing.

Put the two together. You don't even need a trumpet or mouthpiece to do this. Take this back to your instrument and try this different approach. See how those pesky notes go now, without your inbuilt tendencies to hesitate and tip-toe around them.

It might just work...

cheers

Andy
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so many horns, so few good notes...