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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:23 am Post subject: |
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From the responses I've read it sound like the MV might be more accurately called an SV. And that a somewhat deeper MV might be a popular option.
After markp's mixed review I'm just slightly more optimistic about trying one. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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gregplo Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Jan 2002 Posts: 505 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:35 am Post subject: |
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cheiden wrote: | From the responses I've read it sound like the MV might be more accurately called an SV. And that a somewhat deeper MV might be a popular option.
After markp's mixed review I'm just slightly more optimistic about trying one. |
I agree...a slightly deeper piece would be a welcome addition.... _________________ Best Regards,
Greg
Edwards Gen II
P. Mauriat PMT-75 (Ti/Copper)
Conn 61B
Benge 90B
Conn 80B LB
CarolBrass Arturo Sandoval Pocket Trumpet
CarolBrass CFL-620R
Getzen CB 610
Remember...when He returns, the trumpet shall sound.... |
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Dale Proctor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9372 Location: Heart of Dixie
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Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:38 am Post subject: |
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I wonder how the 3MV compares with a Curry 3M or 3Z? Not having seen the Bach, I'd guess it may be similar to the 3Z, but I'm just guessing... _________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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rap Regular Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2001 Posts: 53 Location: UK
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Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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Can anyone who’s tried a 10.5MV and 10.5S give an idea of how they compare to each other and perhaps to other pieces.
Still confused over why the inner rim diameter measurements of the two cups differ.
I appreciate that getting one may be the only way to really know but hearing experiences does help. |
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Ragnarok Regular Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2016 Posts: 31
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Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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I was at my local music store today getting a little work done on one of my horns. To my surprise they had an entire selection of Bach Commercial mouthpieces, 3S and 3MV all the way to the 10 1/2S and MV. They also had a silver large bore Bach Commercial and a silver ML Bach Commercial. Really surprising for a local shop.
I got a large practice room and went to work. I quickly decided that I didn't like any of the MV mouthpieces. They played well but I am not used to the V style cup and the S felt much more familiar and playable. The MV cup did get a warmer sound when you backed off but wasn't as easy in the upper register to control (for me). After I ruled out the MV cups, I ruled out the the 3 as too big and the 10 1/2 and 7 as too small for me, the 10.5 felt REALLY small. I'm primarily an orchestral player and going from my 1C rim, the 5S ultimately felt the most comfortable for me. Upper register was great, sound was fat, consistent and really lit up. I was REALLY surprised. Did not come in looking for a mouthpiece but I left with the 5S. Really fantastic mouthpieces. All of the rims were very soft and comfortable and weren't sharp. I highly recommend them.
Both of the Bach Commercial were incredibly nice as well. The large bore was great, sizzling and exciting but ultimately too much for me. I preferred the ML with the more square tuning slide. The rounded slide was nice and slippery but the square gave me a little more stability that I appreciated as a classical musician. Beautiful sound that could really sizzle. If I had an extra 3K I would have walked out with it for sure.
For now, I'll settle for my new 5S. |
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Ragnarok Regular Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2016 Posts: 31
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Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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rap wrote: | Can anyone who’s tried a 10.5MV and 10.5S give an idea of how they compare to each other and perhaps to other pieces.
Still confused over why the inner rim diameter measurements of the two cups differ.
I appreciate that getting one may be the only way to really know but hearing experiences does help. |
10.5 MV to S did feel slightly different. I was not aware that the inner diameter was different, I thought the difference in feel had more to do with the shape of the cup, but now thinking it back I think the inner cup may have been different. I didn't spend much time on them because they were too small for me. The 10.5MV gave me a little more room for my lips and played better for me then the 10.5S. My lips could just not fit inside the 10.5S it was so shallow. Would probably work well for a dedicated lead player unlike me who just impersonates one on occasion. There was less noticeable difference between the 5S to 5MV and others than the 10.5, at least for me. 10.5S may have been even smaller than my Yamaha Shew Lead, can't say for sure though as I couldn't compare them directly with my YSL. |
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razeontherock Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 10609 Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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Markp, I'm curious what will happen to your sound on your normal mpc if you play this 3MV for a few days or so. The way my chops respond to things like that is to get a better sound on the deeper mpc, but that improvement goes away after a few days of playing the bigger piece exclusively. |
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tptguy Jerome Callet Forum Moderator
Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 3380 Location: Philadelphia, Pa
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:03 am Post subject: |
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A bigger cup produces a wider sound around the player. Most players confuse this with a 'better sound'. They mistakenly think it's a bigger sound even when it's smaller out front, where it counts. And their bandmates, who sit right near them, also hear the wider sound as bigger and confuse the situation more.
Players with good ears recognize the new sound as flat and with less presence. So they unconsciously lip the pitch back up - and typically, blow harder. If this becomes too much of a strain for the chops or ears then they move back. Raz, perhaps this is what you have experienced.
I'm not suggesting that everyone start playing on the smallest piece available. Ultra shallow pieces are excellent practice tools, but that doesn't mean you or your conductor must prefer that sound out front. Nonetheless, spreading the sound without engaging the ears is an even worse evil - and far too common. |
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rap Regular Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2001 Posts: 53 Location: UK
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Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks (Ragnarok) for sharing your experience on the 10.5 pieces.
I've just ordered a 10.5MV which I'm told will take about two weeks to arrive. I currently play a Warburton 8M so hopefully the inner rim diameter won't be too far away from that kind of size.
Thanks,
Rich |
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lexluther Veteran Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2015 Posts: 108 Location: Northwest, Indiana
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:02 pm Post subject: Bach Commercial MP |
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Hopefully this lands in the Bach Commercial Thread as it is my first post. I am a 3C player and was interested in the commercial MP. I didn't see much out there on comparisons, so here is my 2 cents. As I said I play both a Bach 3C and a 3D. Primarily 90% on th 3D. I ordered a 3MV and a 3S. In comparison with the 3C, the 3MV is quite a bit shallower. It is V cupped, It reminds me of a 3D with a V Cup. The rim is comfortable to me and coming off a Bach 3, I acclimated to it very easily. The sound on the 3MV seems to me to be not as bright as a 3D, I really like it (darker, fuller sound). I don't feel that the rim is any larger than a traditional 3C, I do feel that is much more comfortable though. The 3S is more bowl shaped, think 3D in the Professional line. I like the 3S, but I love the 3MV! I thinks the 3MV is a nice nich imbetween the traditional 3C and the 3D. I hope this helps for anyone thinking about this MP. |
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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:18 am Post subject: Re: Bach Commercial MP |
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lexluther wrote: | Hopefully this lands in the Bach Commercial Thread as it is my first post. I am a 3C player and was interested in the commercial MP. I didn't see much out there on comparisons, so here is my 2 cents. As I said I play both a Bach 3C and a 3D. Primarily 90% on th 3D. I ordered a 3MV and a 3S. In comparison with the 3C, the 3MV is quite a bit shallower. It is V cupped, It reminds me of a 3D with a V Cup. The rim is comfortable to me and coming off a Bach 3, I acclimated to it very easily. The sound on the 3MV seems to me to be not as bright as a 3D, I really like it (darker, fuller sound). I don't feel that the rim is any larger than a traditional 3C, I do feel that is much more comfortable though. The 3S is more bowl shaped, think 3D in the Professional line. I like the 3S, but I love the 3MV! I thinks the 3MV is a nice nich imbetween the traditional 3C and the 3D. I hope this helps for anyone thinking about this MP. |
Hi
Welcome to the forum.
Very interesting review. Thanks very much for posting it.
Take Care
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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darndt Regular Member
Joined: 23 Sep 2005 Posts: 28 Location: North Caldwell, New Jersey
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Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:20 am Post subject: |
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How did you like it? _________________ - D. Arndt
http://www.3rdValve.net |
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BudBix Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jun 2006 Posts: 519 Location: United States
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Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:14 am Post subject: |
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Anybody compared a 3S or 5S to a Schilke 14A4a or Warburton S cup? I’m curious. I can play shallow pieces but need some undercut, like the Warburton S. |
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HooverdaGroover New Member
Joined: 29 Aug 2018 Posts: 1
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Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:31 am Post subject: |
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BudBix wrote: | Anybody compared a 3S or 5S to a Schilke 14A4a or Warburton S cup? I’m curious. I can play shallow pieces but need some undercut, like the Warburton S. |
I have both a 3S and a 14a4a. I greatly prefer the 3S. The best thing you can do is to try one for yourself. |
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trumpethead Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Oct 2006 Posts: 444 Location: Australia
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Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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unclewawa wrote: | these are very shallow mouthpieces. The MV gave me more room, whereas the S was just too shallow. Wish that they made a one size deeper piece but keeping all of the other features intact. I believe that I could play that size yet still maintain a lead player's sound.[/b] |
Yes. Just received a 10S piece and completely agree with your view (and others apparently).
I had to buy one sight-unseen as nowhere to buy/try them first.
I'm very much used to commercial shallow pieces and prefer them, but this is just too shallow.
Shallower then the Yamaha Shew, the Warburton 8ESV I own, my Schilke 13A4a pieces and my Stork LTS10.
Rim diameter is great and rim comfort is outstanding.
Maybe the 10 MV would be a better fit but if the diameter feels LARGER as specs suggest, then this makes zero sense to me.
So I agree with others - a deeper version of the 10S would be brilliant, but the current version is unplayable for me. |
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Wesley Regular Member
Joined: 18 Oct 2023 Posts: 19 Location: NEW ORLEANS
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Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2024 3:39 pm Post subject: bach commercial series trumpet mouthpieces. |
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I have used the 3mv with both my 1958 Paris heavy weight large bore (.470+) Bb and Bb Wild Thing. I found greater durability and range with it than my usual Bach 1-1/2C.
I am going to try the commercial 7mv next for two reasons. My wife noticed (1) no change in tone on either horn and (2) I want to play longer stretches. A little less fight with the upper register as time ticks on...
Wes |
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