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kerouack
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Joined: 16 Nov 2001
Posts: 347
Location: Barcelona (Spain)
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 Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 9:33 am Post subject: List of mpc brands and perfect receivers for them (GAP) |
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Hello,
The idea of this thread is to list every mouthpiece brand indication if it works perfect wit ha Bach receiver or a Yamaha receiver, and if you have information about others like Schilke and Kanstul and others we can also add that.
I start:
Yamaha mpc - fits perfect in Yamaha trumpet
- does not fit perfect in Bach trumpet
Bach mpc - Does not fit perfect in Yamaga trumpet
- fits perfect in Yamaha trumpet
GR mouthpiece - does not fit perfect in Yamaha trumpet (in my opinion)
What about Monette mpc, Reeves, AR and others ? |
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Andy Cooper
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Joined: 15 Nov 2001
Posts: 1832
Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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Lawler Bb
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Joined: 27 Jan 2002
Posts: 1140
Location: Milwaukee, WI
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 9:59 am Post subject: |
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This will be a super helpful thread. Granted, each person "feels" things differently.
I love my Greg Black mouthpieces.....I find they play best on my Bach C trumpet, 2nd my CarolBrass Bb, and 3rd my Yamaha Bb. But, with a little acclimation time they work pretty well on all three horns.
I love the sound of Bob Reeves mouthpieces, but can't get any of them to work (for me) on any of my horns (I haven't tried sleeves with them). But, my B shank Purviance mouthpieces work pretty well on my horns.
Marcinkiewicz works pretty well in any horn I have tried. Same with GR.
I'm currently really enjoying some Ken Titmus backbores with Najoom Custom tops on my CarolBrass trumpet.
Also, if folks can chime in with what the approximate sleeve sizes of each brand (stock) are, that would be awesome. For example, stock Reeves are a 5, stock Purviance are a 4, etc.
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Eric Sperry
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ldwoods
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Joined: 26 Sep 2004
Posts: 1843
Location: Lake Charles, LA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 11:07 am Post subject: Re: List of mpc brands and perfect receivers for them (GAP) |
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| kerouack wrote: | Hello,
The idea of this thread is to list every mouthpiece brand indication if it works perfect wit ha Bach receiver or a Yamaha receiver, and if you have information about others like Schilke and Kanstul and others we can also add that.
I start:
Yamaha mpc - fits perfect in Yamaha trumpet
- does not fit perfect in Bach trumpet
Bach mpc - Does not fit perfect in Yamaga trumpet
- fits perfect in Yamaha trumpet
GR mouthpiece - does not fit perfect in Yamaha trumpet (in my opinion)
What about Monette mpc, Reeves, AR and others ? |
I presume you had a typo? I bold fonted the suspected typo, did you intend to write Bach?
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Larry Woods
LDWoods |
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homebilly
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Joined: 24 Dec 2010
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Location: Venice, CA & Paris, France
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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that would be 'Back' and 'Yamaga' 
_________________
ron meza (deadbeat jazz musician) & (TH 5 post ghost neighborhood watch ringleader)
waiting for Fed-Ex to deliver a $50 trumpet to my door. shipping was prepaid by seller of course!
http://ronmeza.com
http://highdefinitionbigband.com |
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kerouack
Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Nov 2001
Posts: 347
Location: Barcelona (Spain)
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: List of mpc brands and perfect receivers for them (GAP) |
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| ldwoods wrote: | | kerouack wrote: | Hello,
The idea of this thread is to list every mouthpiece brand indication if it works perfect wit ha Bach receiver or a Yamaha receiver, and if you have information about others like Schilke and Kanstul and others we can also add that.
I start:
Yamaha mpc - fits perfect in Yamaha trumpet
- does not fit perfect in Bach trumpet
Bach mpc - Does not fit perfect in Yamaga trumpet
- fits perfect in Yamaha trumpet
GR mouthpiece - does not fit perfect in Yamaha trumpet (in my opinion)
What about Monette mpc, Reeves, AR and others ? |
I presume you had a typo? I bold fonted the suspected typo, did you intend to write Bach? |
Yes I did |
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kerouack
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Joined: 16 Nov 2001
Posts: 347
Location: Barcelona (Spain)
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| homebilly wrote: | | that would be 'Back' and 'Yamaga' |
If you don’t understand then no point in explaining it. |
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TJTS
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Posts: 84
Location: Indianapolis, IN
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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So you are assuming that every single receiver will be machined and installed at spec and every mouthpiece shank is perfect with proper wall thickness?
Oh boy........
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Michael | Owner
www.thejazztrumpetstore.com
Vintage Professional Trumpet Store |
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: List of mpc brands and perfect receivers for them (GAP) |
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| kerouack wrote: | Hello,
The idea of this thread is to list every mouthpiece brand indication if it works perfect wit ha Bach receiver or a Yamaha receiver, and if you have information about others like Schilke and Kanstul and others we can also add that.
I start:
Yamaha mpc - fits perfect in Yamaha trumpet
- does not fit perfect in Bach trumpet
Bach mpc - Does not fit perfect in Yamaga trumpet
- fits perfect in Yamaha trumpet - Did you mean to say Bach here instead of Yamaha?
GR mouthpiece - does not fit perfect in Yamaha trumpet (in my opinion)
What about Monette mpc, Reeves, AR and others ? |
Take care and best wishes
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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kerouack
Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Nov 2001
Posts: 347
Location: Barcelona (Spain)
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2024 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| TJTS wrote: | So you are assuming that every single receiver will be machined and installed at spec and every mouthpiece shank is perfect with proper wall thickness?
Oh boy........ |
Yes.
If the differences are VERY big for some brands then we will have to investigate it and add also that information. |
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2024 2:56 am Post subject: |
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Hi Kerouack
You may find this thread interesting:
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1262116
Personally, I'd disagree where it suggests that both Bach and Yamaha mouthpieces insert similarly to a Reeves 5 sleeve, as I find that Yamaha mouthpieces insert around 1mm more than Bach
| lipshurt wrote: |
bachs are bigger about .385
yamaha are about .383
variation exists of course, but bachs generally have about .040 more gap
a reeves sleeve 4 is about .060 more gap than a reeves 5 sleeve
its more likely for a bach piece to work with a yamaha than a yamaha piece to work with a bach.
everyone is different of course, this is just general stuff that applies about 7 out of ten times. |
Taken from this thread:
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1476247&sid=fe610c524522ba77f724febffc610493
Take care and best wishes
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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abontrumpet
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Joined: 08 May 2009
Posts: 1781
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| Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2024 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| Louise Finch wrote: | | I find that Yamaha mouthpieces insert around 1mm more than Bach |
(correction below in response to Jay)
As I have stated, insertion depth (on its own) is a nearly pointless measurement. It is also stated in 2016 in the thread you linked: | kandor wrote: | | I believe that measuring the total insertion on a mpc into a receiver gives you essentially a meaningless number. |
Last edited by abontrumpet on Sat Feb 24, 2024 7:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
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abontrumpet
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Joined: 08 May 2009
Posts: 1781
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| Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2024 6:18 am Post subject: Re: List of mpc brands and perfect receivers for them (GAP) |
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| kerouack wrote: |
The idea of this thread is to list every mouthpiece brand indication if it works perfect wit ha Bach receiver or a Yamaha receiver, and if you have information about others like Schilke and Kanstul and others we can also add that.
I start:
Yamaha mpc - fits perfect in Yamaha trumpet
- does not fit perfect in Bach trumpet
Bach mpc - Does not fit perfect in Yamaga trumpet
- fits perfect in [Bach] trumpet
GR mouthpiece - does not fit perfect in Yamaha trumpet (in my opinion)
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Personally I think your conclusions aren't all that meaningful (since we are talking about anecdotal findings). As we can see from this table: https://trumpet.cloud/mpc/specs/vcdata.pdf , there is enough variability in mouthpieces to not achieve "perfect" results across the board.
Good luck! |
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JayKosta
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 3308
Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2024 6:27 am Post subject: |
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| abontrumpet wrote: |
As I have stated, insertion depth (on its own) is a nearly pointless measurement. ... |
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It's usefulness is when trying to determine if less gap might give an improvement.
Use a mouthpiece that inserts deeper (e.g. Yamaha) and do test playing.
As a measurement, it doesn't give an accurate gap size, but does indicate a reduced gap.
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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abontrumpet
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Joined: 08 May 2009
Posts: 1781
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| Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2024 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| JayKosta wrote: | | abontrumpet wrote: |
As I have stated, insertion depth (on its own) is a nearly pointless measurement. ... |
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It's usefulness is when trying to determine if less gap might give an improvement.
Use a mouthpiece that inserts deeper (e.g. Yamaha) and do test playing.
As a measurement, it doesn't give an accurate gap size, but does indicate a reduced gap. |
Oops, I didn't read Louise correctly. I thought she was talking about bach vs yamaha receivers, not the mouthpieces. Thanks
That being said, I will cede that in the rare case where you want to try a completely different mouthpiece and glean useful information about gap, you would be correct. |
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Louise Finch
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2024 7:12 am Post subject: |
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| JayKosta wrote: | | abontrumpet wrote: |
As I have stated, insertion depth (on its own) is a nearly pointless measurement. ... |
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It's usefulness is when trying to determine if less gap might give an improvement.
Use a mouthpiece that inserts deeper (e.g. Yamaha) and do test playing.
As a measurement, it doesn't give an accurate gap size, but does indicate a reduced gap. |
Yes, I agree.
I wasn't talking about insertion depth on its own, rather I was talking about comparing different insertion depths on the same horn. if you have the same mouthpiece cut for sleeves, and different sizes of sleeves from the same manufacturer, you can compare the two insertion amounts as an alternative to comparing gap.
i.e.
My colleague has done some measurements for me in my Bach 37.
Depth from leadpipe ledge to top of receiver = 27.40mm
James R New 6.25 sleeve inserts 25.11mm.
Using a basic gap equation of receiver depth - insertion amount, gap = 27.40mm - 25.11mm = 2.29mm gap
James R New 6 sleeve inserts 24.73mm
Using a basic gap equation of receiver depth - insertion amount, gap = 27.40mm - mm = 2.67mm gap
2.67mm gap - 2.29mm gap = 0.38mm difference in gap
OR
I could just compare insertion amounts.
25.11mm - 24.73mm = 0.38mm difference in gap.
As I've just demonstrated, comparing insertion amounts is perfectly adequate for this purpose. Now if we are going the whole hog and using the GR gap equation and considering exit wall thickness etc., this would probably still work for comparing two sleeves from the same manufacturer on the same mouthpiece, but probably not for comparing mouthpieces from different manufacturers, but calculating gap by using a basic gap equation of receiver depth - insertion amount is no better in this regard.
What I do agree, is that one insertion amount figure is meaningless. As an example, my James R New sleeve inserts 25mm in my Yamaha Xeno II. I have absolutely no idea what actual gap this sleeve is giving me, as I have never measured the distance from the top of the leadpipe to the top of the mouthpiece receiver.
BUT I don't need this measurement to compare the insertion amount of a 6.5 sleeve to a 6.25 sleeve to a 6 sleeve.
So to conclude, if you want to know what gap you have on your trumpet, measuring the insertion amount is useless on its own, as you also need the distance from the top of the leadpipe to the top of the mouthpiece receiver, to calculate the actual gap. BUT you can still compare insertion amounts without knowing what actual gap they give.
All the best
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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cgaiii
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Posts: 1550
Location: Virginia USA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2024 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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My question would be: can we assume consistency in any give line of mouthpieces to make a study useful, or is it always going to be mouthpiece to mouthpiece. Looking at the Frost list (cryptic as it is) shows up a lot of inconsistency.
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Bb: Schilke X3L AS SP, Yamaha YTR-6335S
C: Schilke CXL, Kanstul 1510-2
Picc: Kanstul 920
Bb Bugle: Kanstul
Bb Pocket: Manchester Brass
Flugel: Taylor Standard
Bass Trumpet: BAC Custom
Natural Tr: Custom Haas replica by Nikolai Mänttäri Morales |
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kerouack
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Joined: 16 Nov 2001
Posts: 347
Location: Barcelona (Spain)
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| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2024 7:52 am Post subject: |
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Could be that a company that makes mpc’s and horns, is doing things right making different mpc’s that insert to the receiver in different length ? May be it depends on how deep is the cup, etc..
But still, a mpc company does also makes horn can make their mpc specially designed for their horns, not every posible horn of different brands. |
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