AR Resonance Backbores

[Phoenix864]

Does anyone have much experience with the smaller AR Resonance backbores (XS, lead, and screech)? I've been demoing an AR 40 Small backbore but it seems to be too open for me. Compared to a Warburton KT, it feels stuffier and less 'easy' in the upper register.

Tony advised trying either the Lead or the Screech, with the Lead being his smallest 'resonance' type backbore and the Screech being a more traditional, tighter design. If anyone has thoughts on how either of these backbores stack up with tighter options from Warburton/GR, I'd love to hear them.

[Goby]

The AR #3 backbore was my favorite when I tried them all out with a dealer a few years ago. I believe the #3 is now called "lead", since #5 is now called the S and #7 is the M. I thought the #3 backbore provided good definition and clarity to articulations as well as a more secure feeling than the #7 (aka M) backbore. It's not a tight or restrictive backbore by any means, and the intonation is great. It worked well with small and large tops (XS Lead to MB).

[Brassnose]

Yes, the ARs feel more open than the Warburtons, which is why I prefer the ARs. The KT* feels very stuffy to me, so I sold it.

I guess we’re all different and for me the ARs are perfect because they are much more open. I actually mostly play the L and the L Classical (orchestra and all around) and switch to the S if I need a little more support. For lead and commercial I use an XS in nickel silver. It is bright yet elegant and still nicely open.

Somehow the only ARs I could never get to work are the M.

My favorite Warburton is the NY, brilliant and powerful, but still nicely open. It’s the only Warb I kept. Works well on C too, at least for me.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[Phoenix864]

Thanks for the responses, some good info there. If I stick with AR, it sounds like the Lead backbore might be the best bet. The Screech backbore is apparently what Sergei Nakariakov's daily driver AR mouthpiece uses, but I'm thinking at that point it just makes more sense to go with something from Warburton.

Brassnose - I've been demoing a MD40/40S in nickel sliver. My expectation was that it would be a pretty bright mouthpiece, but all the feedback I've gotten on it always characterizes its sound as duller than a GR 66M or Warburton 4MC/KT. Did you find the AR pieces darkened your sound/were less vibrant compared to the Warburton parts? My initial reason for trying AR was the widespread praise of the sound, but between the duller sound I've experienced with the 40 Small backbore and my proclivity for tighter pieces, I'm wondering if it just makes more sense to go with something from Warburton.

[stuartissimo]

[wiemelen]

Did anyone ever played the classical backbore next to the regular backbore?
The classical would be better for articulation, but that is kinda a vague description 🙂.
So any other input would be appreciated.
_________________
Trumpet : Yamaha YTR-9335CHS + Yamaha YTR-6335H
Trumpet mouthpieces : Lotus 2L (main) + Lotus 2L2
Flugelhorn : Kanstul 1525 with Curry 1,5FL
Cornet : Conn 80a (1919) with Curry 1,5 BBC + Curry 1,5 VC + GR L66,9 #6

[nick8801]

I have played almost all the AR backbores. Currently on an XS with a bronze C cup. I used to play an S with a brass C cup. I think it’s about learning the blow of the backbore. The S backbore was great for me but it’s still big compared to some traditional equipment. The XS gives me a little something to play against, especially with the open throats. I really like it. I wanna pick up a D cup for when I need a brighter sound, and I plan on pairing it with a lead backbore. I have played the L which I just find uncomfortabley large. It’s a nice sound, but I don’t have the chops for it. I also use an M backbore with a B cup. That’s a nice big jazzy sound. Gets very deep sounding without being a complete black hole to blow into. You have to experiment and see what works. I believe Scott Tinkler plays the XS with a C cup. Check out his instagram if you get a chance. He sounds killer on it.

[donovan]

The Classical backboresn have a longer cylindrical section that helps with articulation and stability of the slots. Also, softer entrances are easier, too.
_________________
Donovan Bankhead
donovan@erniewilliamson.com
www.erniewilliamson.com

[Brassnose]

Sorry for being late responding. I own an L classical backbore which works well with an MD and MC top (but makes the whole setup VERY open). The sound is much softer than I anticipated from the description and, at least when I play it, it has a distinct flugel-y touch. Quite similar to the Curry 7TC I also own.

Been playing AR since before the pandemic now and have come to the conclusion that the ME cup is just my cup. Paired with different backbores (XS, S, L) it does lead to funk/rock to orchestra to almost flugel. For even more flugel sound I use the Curry 7TC (or the flugel ). The Classical backbore just seems to be a little too open for me for a longer gig or rehearsal.

One thing I keep noticing is that AR does have a little less „bite“ in the sound than the GRs or Lotuses that I had. So if I needed a really hard and aggressive sound, I might reconsider a GR65SZ. ARs are just more „cultivated“, if you get what I mean - hard to describe.

@nick8801: I have a bronze MD cup for sale in the marketplace. Drop me a line if interested (located in Europe, though).
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[Brassnose]

PS: in contrast to Donovan I find the regular backbores easier with the slotting. To me the Classical backbores have much wider slots.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[wiemelen]

Just played around for about an hour with a MC 40 classical M backbore.
Very tight slotting ... for some reason the notes just seem to be just where one expects them to be. Even more so than on my Lotus 2L2 for which I still need to compensate/correct some notes. And I though the Lotus was already a major improvement on my previous mouthpieces.

Like @brassnose already indicated, the sound is indeed more cultivated and rounded than Lotus or GR. But I guess there are probably some other AR combinations that can solve that issue when needed.

At this point, I'm going to play around a bit more with it. It's a really fun mouthpiece, although I think I will also try out the MLC cup. The MC seems to be just a little bit too narrow to my liking. But who knows I might get used to it after a while.
_________________
Trumpet : Yamaha YTR-9335CHS + Yamaha YTR-6335H
Trumpet mouthpieces : Lotus 2L (main) + Lotus 2L2
Flugelhorn : Kanstul 1525 with Curry 1,5FL
Cornet : Conn 80a (1919) with Curry 1,5 BBC + Curry 1,5 VC + GR L66,9 #6

[Brassnose]

@Phoenix: I’ve overlooked your question and just saw it now. While I prefer AR for most of my playing I do/did like to sound I got from my Monette B4L, GR 65SZ, Lotus 3S-N, and Warburton 5SV or 5MC cups with the NY backbore.

All of them were more brilliant but less refined in their sound than AR. On the Monette, which I played the longest before switching to AR, my sound was nice and open, quite warm, too. AR just gives me much more control.

On the other pieces/combinations I sounded much more “aggressive” than on either AR or Monette, also more powerful. The most spectacular example for me was the GR. Had it with me when testing horns from a well know German trumpet builder and he immediately went like “Ouch, this really bites” or something along those lines. Extremely comfortable rim, too.

The Lotus had a rather short life in the house because I really disliked the rim although the presence and sound was very nice.

The Warburton is great, the rim is very comfortable but ultimately I didn’t quite find the backbore that fit me. Maybe wiemelen is right and I am one of those players who play best on open-ish pieces but didn’t know for a long time?
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[anrapa]

Hello to everyone!
Here are a few thoughts:
1) when a backbore is too open for your taste it will feel tight, much tighter than an actually tight backbore like, say, a Bach or a Warburton or a Schilke (well, tight in terms of geometry, compared to my average models).
When this is the case you will raise your pitch in a quest to balance the resistance (the higher you aim the tighter the feel) but this will also destroy your sound as you will end up with a very nasal tone.
So, there is no open or tight model, it's rather a matter of matching what your brain tells you it's the right amount of resistance.
We all have different horns and mouthpieces and what is super tight for one could be way too open for another person.

The whole concept of offering so many different backbore and throat sizes is to match what the player likes (which will change over time, that's guaranteed).
If you select the one that is too open or too tight you might end up thinking that the whole line of my backbores is the same. Luckily there are a lot more options

2) classical: as Donovan correctly said, the throat section is longer. This makes the articulation cleaner and slots more secure. I normally make them only with Medium and Large backbores because I think tighter backbores are pretty "solid" already. If you play a, say, medium classical backbore and you can only handle a, say, Extra Small size, you might end up thinking the Classical Medium is tight and with poor articulation. You should always compare M with M or L with L when trying classical.

3) Lead backbores are old N.1, XS are old 3

4) screech backbores are pretty tight and long, still with a 4.0mm throat but tight nonetheless. These are the ones to select if you can't handle a Lead backbore but they don't follow my idea of how backbore should work.

5) I'm very happy to reply to any question
_________________
AR Resonance Trumpets and Mouthpieces

Trumpets and mouthpieces: the ones I make

[Jaw04]

Keep in mind an AR 40mm throat mouthpiece is a bigger throat than standard equipment. So even if you have a tight backbore, it will feel open in some way. I currently like the AR Small backbore because it's pretty focused and efficient but still has a rich tone that doesn't get nasal with my horn combination. On another horn I usedmore frequently in the past, I prefered the medium backbore for a similar feel. Balance is important for me.

[Brassnose]

I agree to the statement above, ME cups and an XS or S backbore still allow me to play soft when needed but I can cut above the band/orchestra when necessary. The more open L backbore works well on my C, which is quite open but still a little tighter than my Bb horns. It really is about balance.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[Destructo]

[anrapa]

Nope, you would need the throat section to be even longer to have a 42 L Classical.
Also, you would need a 42 top to match the backbore.

_________________
AR Resonance Trumpets and Mouthpieces

Trumpets and mouthpieces: the ones I make