Involuntary lip quiver

[JimKaz]

I am experiencing a rapid quiver in my lip/embouchure, especially when I do long-tone warm-ups. This has been going on for over a year. It almost sounds like the vibrato that British brass band cornet players use. However, I am not able to stop or control the lip quiver. After playing for more than 1/2 hour, the quiver often is reduced significantly and nearly goes away, especially if I've been doing technical playing. This quiver does not otherwise seem to impair my playing, especially moving note passages. It does affect my lyrical playing.

Any ideas on (1) what's going on and (2) how to eliminate this totally involuntary quiver? I'm a serious avocational musician, 76 fyears old.

Jim K.
East Lansing

[Doug Elliott]

That's usually a symptom of some instability in your chops. Without seeing you play it's not really possible to guess what it is with any accuracy, but it can be mouthpiece placement that's not quite ideal for you, or not quite enough mouthpiece pressure, or an imbalance in mouthpiece pressure. Or lots of other small details that's you're doing or not doing.

When you're doing more technical playing you have to be in better control, and you probably increase the mouthpiece pressure a bit with articulation, so it goes away. Try doing that from the beginning.

[JayKosta]

[Andy Cooper]

Since this is a relatively recent event, why don't you consult your doctor to eliminate any medical or prescription drug interaction problems.

[plunkett]

Same thing happened to me after I spent 6 months living in a hotel and practicing using a very restrictive silencer mute. It eventually went away, but I seem to remember that it took quite a long time. To overcome it I just used more pressure (which is bad, but got me through it). Good luck!
_________________
Pat Plunkett

[JimKaz]

[quote="Doug Elliott"]That's usually a symptom of some instability in your chops. Without seeing you play it's not really possible to guess what it is with any accuracy, but it can be mouthpiece placement that's not quite ideal for you, or not quite enough mouthpiece pressure, or an imbalance in mouthpiece pressure. Or lots of other small details that's you're doing or not doing.

When you're doing more technical playing you have to be in better control, and you probably increase the mouthpiece pressure a bit with articulation, so it goes away. Try doing that from the beginning.[/quote]

Doug, Jay, Andy, Pat,
Thanks for your advice and suggestions, which I will work on. Your comments about instability in my chops and using some additional pressure makes sense. Another person suggested opening my lower jaw especially in the lower register, which helped him to eliminate the lip quiver.

Thanks again gentlemen!
God bless.
Jim K

[Tony Scodwell]

All the years I was Doc's lead player we often practiced in the empty hall. Doc's chops would sort of tremble when he first started warming up and even on the gig his chops would do the same thing when placing the mouthpiece prior to playing. Note that this happened only prior to playing and never seemed to happen when he was blowing.

Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com

[huntman10]

I have a dear friend who developed this symptom. He was diagnosed as having an "essential tremor" in his late 60's. In his case, at that time, it only bothered him when he set his embouchure. It gave him an uncontrollable vibrato and rather than taking a daily pill, he sold his trumpets and quit "cold turkey". I don't get to hear from him much in the last few years, so I don't know how he is doing. (His hearing also was getting to be quite a challenge, but that was unrelated to the tremor, and I think that is why he has limited our contacts.)

You should see a neurologist if you haven't, as the symptoms are somewhat like Parkinson's. Not to be alarmist, but at our age, I have seen a few friends whose health challenges first showed up in their trumpet playing problems.
_________________
huntman10
Collector/Player of Fine (and not so fine) Brass Instruments including
Various Strads, Yammies, Al Hirt Courtois, Schilkes,
Selmer 25, Getzen Eternas, Kanstuls (920 Pic, CG)
Martin Custom Large Bore, Lots Olds!, Conns, etc.

[trombahonker]

I play professionally, and sometimes I have a noticeable instability that manifest as quiver at the beginning of my day. I’ve learned that quiet, very focused long tones with the intention of stabilizing things is the key for me. After ~10 minutes of that, my production stabilizes and it is gone for the day, and may not show up for many days after. My routine is based around this, and from time to time if I’m in a hurry and don’t get a chance to address it, I’ll notice that that quiver can manifest somewhere later.

I’m also keenly aware that end-of-day care directly correlates with whether I experience this quiver. If I play a heavy rehearsal or concert, but don’t take the time to do just a bit of focus and quiet work prior to ending the day, it’s much more likely I will have a quiver in the morning. Also, if I’m doing more middle and low register playing, especially at high dynamics, I’m more likely to experience this the day after. Higher, principal work does not seem to trigger it the same way

Hope this helps!
Aaron
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Trombahonker's Practice Studio on Youtube

[Weekend Warrior]

This may or may not might not be true in your case, but the involuntary lip quiver can be a Pavlovian response due to using the lip vibrato as opposed to the hand vibrato.

In the appendix of Doc Reinhardt's "Encyclopedia of the Pivot System" Doc mentions a student of his who had this syndrome so badly that his lip would start involuntarily quivering when he started opening his trumpet case. This is why Doc was so vehemently opposed to players using a lip vibrato rather than a hand vibrato except under special circumstances for effect.

If this is not the cause of your problem, then it's neurological in nature. If it's that big a deal for you, you should see a neurologist and try to get to the root cause of it. Throughout our lives, depending on where we live, what we eat, and what our medical history is, our brains and neurological systems are subjected to poisoning from many sources, including but not limited to drugs, alcohol, mercury from amalgam tooth fillings, mold exposure, pesticides, herbicides, and glyphosates in our foods, flouride, chlorine, and plastics in our water, chemicals in paints, radiation from x-rays, cat-scans, and other medical procedures, PCBs and mercury in seafood, arsenic found in wine, rice, and used by farmers as an antibiotic in many meats, VOCs and chemicals (such as fire retardants) that exist in bedding, furniture, and carpeting, general air pollution, etc. The list goes on and on, and we are bombarded with toxins our entire lives. This is why we have such a high incidence today of dementia, Alzheimers, Parkinsons, ALS (Lou Gehrig's disease), Multiple Sclerosis, and others. Our nervous systems are being constantly bombarded with assaults from these chemicals. Even our cars are full of toxins that we breath from the carpeting, adhesives, and chemicals in the upholstery. There's also a genetic component.

There are some supplements that can assist in healing and regenerating the neurological system, such as Alpha Lipoic Acid, D-Limonene, Vitamins B1. B6. and B12. Just make sure that the B12 is the methylcobalamin form, not cyanocobalamin. The cyanocobalamin actually contains miniscule amounts of cyanide, which is where it gets that prefix in its name.

[kanemania]

You may have, as I do, an essential tremor. You should see your doctor or neurologist.

[Doug Elliott]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3793392/

In case you're in the habit of eating raw almonds, I've had nerve effects before I learned the cause.

And yes essential tremor is always a possibility.

[Uberopa]

Hi,
I'm 73 years old and am similarly afflicted. I am recovering from a heart attack about ten months ago and had a severe fall and damaged my spine five months ago. The tremor became so bad that I was fired from the big band I had played with for twenty years and had to withdraw from my brass quintet. I started to take lessons again. I started with the Getchell Book one, page one. I also began receiving chiropractic treatment for my back injury. Apparently I had spinal nerve damage to the cervical nerve to the facial muscles and thoracic nerve to the diapghram.
Medical conditions can contribute to the problem. Trumpet playing is an athletic endeavour. So it becomes necessary to ensure that I try to optimize my health. It also helps to comprehend the concept that we are the instrument and the trumpet exists to produce the sound we hear in our heads. This helps in reducing strain when playing and promoting a greater relaxation in exertion. It's a high concept in that the trumpet does not exist. It also requires hard work. I am improving. I still have flutter when starting the sound but it is much less. Be kind to yourself,, find a good teacher if you feel that will help and try to play with less strain or effort. Best of luck. You can improve. It is within you to do it.

[garydw]