Second Valve slide stuck

jgadvert · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 9:12 am Post subject:

You know..the little "U" shaped one...on both my horns. It won't come out..tried pulling it out by hand as best as possible(but dont want to damage the horn/s). Really annoying as I make sure to lubricate everything..but they still got stuck.

Any ideas? How about the old(hold it under hot water idea?). Tools seem out of the question. I'd like to avoid having to take it in to the shop for such a stupid little thing.

Frankly...I've never understood what the purpose this little sucker is supposed to serve anyway.

maynard-46 · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 9:39 am Post subject:

Take a handkerchief or thin rag...put it through the "hole" where tht two pieces join....twist the rag REAL tight and hold the rag right next to the slide on the twisted part...pull in short jerky motions UP & DOWN as you pull backwards. It should pop eventually unless the slide got dented in there! Good luck!

BW
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riffdawg2000 · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 9:41 am Post subject:

Don't forget to pray to whoever ... before, during, and after .... that the valve doesn't come apart.
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jgadvert · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 9:51 am Post subject:

No..the slides are not dented..in perfect shape...just frozen in real tight... I'm hesittant to wiggle it back and forth. Like to be able to pull it straight out.
Wonder what Mr. tech guy(with all the tools, tricks and gizmos) would do?

hmmmm..wonder if cold would be better? Hey... I'll stick it in the freezer(nah!)

This ever happen to anybody?

_dcstep · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:38 am Post subject:

Don't hold it under hot water if it's a lacquered horn. You're likely to peel off a bunch of lacquer.

I'd tap it out with a small mallet hitting the nub that stands up. Cover the nub with some clothe and tap lightly.

Dave
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climbingoddess · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:39 am Post subject:

I did a repair internship at Rayburn in Boston about a year ago and I was taught to tap on the slide lightly near where it goes into the horn. We had little "hammers" that didn't hurt the metal; when I use this technique at home, I usually just tap on it with my knuckle (be sure to cover the slide with some cloth if using something more substantial than your knuckle!) Tap all around the slide (where you can reach) on both sides of the "U" and this should loosen it up.

Don't know if this will work, but can't hurt to give it a try!

Good luck!

jgadvert · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:48 am Post subject:

Both are silver horns One is a thinnned walled horn that dents/dings if you even look at it funny..can't bare to rap it with any tool(even protected with a piece of material). The knuckle idea seems fairly harmless though.. hmmmm

AeroStud1026 · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:49 am Post subject:

thats happened to me in my very young years of playing the trumpet....what i did was take a cloth and run it threw the hole in the middle of the U....and take both ends and pull.....comes out fine....grease it...stick it in and wait over night....comes out smooth and perfect the next day

OCTA-C · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 1:53 pm Post subject:

Common problem on alot of horns. My repair guy uses a little liquid wrench in the seam of the slide overnight and has a special flat hook tool that he made to work into the seam and start to pry it apart. You have to be careful though when pulling apart that slide as it's in two parts. The inner tube may stay in while the outside tube will pull off. Other times, in fits of frustration, I have disassembled the horn, soaked the slide in liquid wrench overnite, and then if it was still stuck I would pour water into the slide through the valve casing, lay it on that side in the freezer overnite and then thaw it under hot water and start to work it free, and promise myself never to let this happen again!!

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plankowner110 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 3620

jgadvert:
Don't try to fix it yourself. A good repairman will pull the slide and then "fit" it so you won't have the problem again. It's a very simple repair as long as you don't mess with it!
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jgadvert · Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2003 7:38 am Post subject:

Ok..got them out...without damage(fortunately). First I put WD-40 in the seams, and let it sit for an hour. Then I used the hankerchief method as described to gently pull it out(was that a scary procedure!).

I then put more WD-40 on the slide, a little vaseline and re-inserted it....and hoping it dosent happen again.

Much thanks to everyone who responded!

Boy..sticky valves, stuck slides..whats next? Glad I bought such an expensive horn(duh)

Bstradivarius · Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2024 12:33 pm Post subject:

I have tried the "coiled handkerchief" technique on a horn which I bought with that slide stuck. It did not work. I have heard the technique is not recommended unless you saw that slide move at one time and it became stuck from sitting. If it was dropped, you could damage it by forcing. So I was told.
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JayKosta · Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2024 12:45 pm Post subject:

trpt.hick · Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2024 10:23 pm Post subject:

Place a tapered metal punch (1 to 8 ratio is perfect) into the curved part of the bend. Tap against the punch with a very light hammer (dent hammer if possible) or a medium size screwdriver. Tap gently lots of times. It should slowly move out. Using a drop of penetrating oil on each side of the slide can help. Let it soak in through the seam for a couple of minutes, then try again.

If this method does not work, take it to a good repair shop. The slide may need to be taken apart by desoldering.

Dave Hickman

jeirvine · Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2024 6:52 am Post subject:

Pulling too hard on a very stuck slide can pull apart the solder holding the slide outer, or even deform the valve casing. I have had success with penetrating oil and some heat from a heat gun on low. I have also pulled off the outer. Best to take it to a decent pro shop.
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Andy Cooper · Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2024 8:33 am Post subject:

I do a lot of my own work but I did not start with pro level horns. I inflicted my learning curve carnage on $40 cornets and trumpets from shopgoodwill.com.

Your second valve slides are important for clean out purposes. All slides should be removed, brushed out, and re-greased every time you clean your horn.

It's also handy to pull the slide from time to time and listen - "All Hail jgadvert" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmynyUdwS4M

When you hear that - it's time to clean.

Please take your horns to your local tech.

One trick for slide removal is thermal plastic molded in the curve of the crook to pull against.

JMWTpt · Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2024 10:22 am Post subject: Second Valve slide stuck

From experience, I've found the PB Blaster is noticeably more effective than WD 40. I've used it with positive results on diesel engine injector lines, bolts, etc. Make sure the interior and exterior are clean and dry as possible. Apply PB to the inside and outside of the slide, and let it set for an hour. I don't know the effect on lacquer, so a test may be in order. If nothing works, take it to an experienced shop. They have seen it all, and it will be worth it if you want access. Good luck.

Jimbosan · Regular Member Joined: 15 Dec 2023 Posts: 47

Glad you got it out without damaging anything. I found several old trumpets and cornets at local estate sales over the past couple of years. Some of the slides haven't moved for 60 years. This is what I do for a stuck slide. Spray a penetrating oil at the joints on the outside of the side. Cut a plastic straw and use the end with a bent in it to spray the inside of the stuck tube. WD-40 is not penetrating oil. It may work if the slide is just slightly stuck, but not if it's really stuck. PB Blaster works and is cheap, but it stinks. Use it outdoors or in your garage. Kroil works faster, comes in a liquid form, doesn't smell, but it costs 3x more. Wait for the solvent to work. The slide may come out quickly or not. Heat from a hair dryer will speed it up. One time when I working on a stuck slide during the summer, I put the trumpet in a black plastic garbage bag in the sun on my patio between applications, and that worked. The heat thins the solvent and expands the brass a little which helps the solvent penetrate faster. I also use pieces of wood that I carved to fit in the inside crooks of the slides. One fits in the curve of a tuning slide. Another has a tang that fits sideways in a first, second, or third slide crook. I put a strip of cork where the wood meets the brass and tap gently on the wood to push the slide outward It's safer and more effective to tap outward than to pull outward. Solvent, heat, tap, wait, repeat as necessary. Most come out quickly, but it could take several applications of solvent, heat, and tapping, over several days if it's been stuck for a long time. The solvent penetraites a little more with each application. I never ran into a slide that I couldn't get out without damage. Just have to be patient.
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