AR Resonance VS. Lotus

[ericmpena]

[kerouack]

If i were you, or, another way of saying it, if i go to try and AR, Lotus or Bhome or Yamaha artist model, i would make sure 150% that i am trying it with a mouthpiece perfect designed for it.
For the brands that make horns and also make mpcs, thats not very difficult, just using a mpc same brand than the instrument.

It could happen that you dont like the AR, Lotus or Yamaha or Bohme or Monette, not because you dont really like the horn, but because the mpc you are using does not fit perfectly the design of the trumpet.


It is better to compare, for example, a yamaha artist model with a yamaha mpc similar than the one you use, with a AR trumpet with a AR mouthpiece similar to the one you use.

[ericmpena]

[kerouack]

I understand the logic of changing " one variable at a time ", thats why i would not try a AR horn with a AR mpc that is " super different" of the mouthpiece i use now in my Yamaha trumpet. I would talk with AR and choose the AR mpc that is "more similar" to my Yamaha mpc.


But also, it does not make sense, to try a trumpet with a mouthpiece that in reality i will never use with it, cause in case i buy the horn i will buy a same brand mouthpiece.


If you already tried Monette with Monette mpc, or AR with AR mouthpiece, and you like better an ACB or other mpc, then fine, i just think that to try the horn wit ha same brand mpc is needed to be sure that you dont like the horn cause the mpc does not perfectly fits the horn.

An example, my Yamaha artist model, tried with a GR mouthpiece i have or a Bach mpc i have, is not GREAT, is very good, but not great, but i tried it with a Yamaha mpc that is not even the diameter, the rim not even the cup i usually use, and then is GREAT.

So, in my opinion, to be sure 100%, in general, that the reason you dont like an horn is really the horn, and not the mpc used with it, the easiest and cheapest way to test, is to test it with a mpc that is same brand than the horn.

[stuartissimo]

I think you're a bit too focused on the premise that a horn plays best with a mouthpiece from the same manufacturer, solely based on the fact that you had a good experience with it once.

Given ericmpena's vast experience and professional knowledge, I'm very sure that he has given enough consideration to the effects of the mouthpiece on his testing. He even stated that in his past experiences, there was little evidence of mouthpiece/trumpet matching. It's very likely that his testing process was thorough and effective, tailored to his preferences and intended usage. He even tried multiple versions of the trumpet after all, which is more than most of us would do.
_________________
1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces

[kerouack]

Hi stuartissimo,
It is not once.
Cause i tried my Yamaha 6345 with a GR M3, GR MX, bach 3C, bach 1/2 C, yamaha 7C, AR mouthpiece, also a yamaha 17B4 and a bach symphonic.

So that's 8 times trying.


Then i did the same but with the Yamaha artist model, so thats another 8 times.

In Total that's 16 times trying.


It can be just casual that both Yamaha trumpets work remarkably better with the Yamaha mpcs ?

I don't say that always an horn will play best with a mpc of the same brand, what i say is that using a mpc same brand the risk of not liking the horn but because the mpc does not fit the horn, not cause you really dont like the horn IS BY FAR!!! A LOT LOWER than using in general, any other brand of mpc.


For example, if i am going to try a AR horn, may be a picket mpc will work better with it for me than a AR mpc right ? well, may be, same with reeves, same with GR, same with monette, so what do i do, do i buy ALL OF THEM to try the AR trumpet ? and see if with any, works better for me than with the AR mpc ? and i can push to the limit the AR trumpet ? is someone really going to buy all of them and 10 more mpc brands ? how much money are you planning to spend for just trying an horn and see if you like it ?

It is just common sense to lower the risk, BY FAR!!!, just trying it with an AR mpc similar to the mpc you use.
And after that, if you like it better with other mpc you already have, then try it and use it, thats fine.


It is just common sense.

And i am not talking just to ericmpena's , this is not a PM, i am talking to everybody, in general, about trying any horn from any brand. Even Custo horns like Thane. I would ask Thane before trying it " does this receiver fit well a Yamaha mpc, or is more for a bach mpc ? with which one or any other brand should i try the horn ? ".

[kerouack]

I AM SURE THANE does custo work to create a receiver that perfectly fits the mpc brand you tell him, cause he is a very good horn builder, i am sure he knows about all this.
And AR already have a way to adjust the GAP to make the horn to work best with lof of different mpc design and brands.
And Monette tells you to use Monette mpcs, and Lotus also sell mpcs.

[ericmpena]

Raw, 140mm vs. Lacquered, 132mm.

Which sound do you prefer?

I feel that the raw bell has a wider range of color and vibrance. It also has a more open blow, which I prefer.
The lacquered horn is warm and smooth. It's slightly more restrictive to play with a tighter blow.


Link

_________________
Thane Performing Artist
www.youtube.com/ericmpena
https://thanetrumpets.com/

[TJTS]

My 0.02

132mm
Slightly more compact in sound
Sound is not breaking up at dynamics
More round and more core - a dense sound

140mm
Slightly more broad sound
Sound is barking and breaking up at dynamics - not in a good way
Less round and less core - more of a smile type of EQ - I hear highs and lows, but the middle presence is absent

I prefer the 132 personally. But then again, this is uploaded to YouTube with audio compression. Record a lossless and upload to Google Drive or something and we might tell more than the video!

Maybe try a smaller backbore with the 140mm to tame it in a bit and regain the mids?

FYI - this is listening with high quality headphones.
_________________
Michael | Owner
www.thejazztrumpetstore.com
Vintage Professional Trumpet Store

[ericmpena]

[Jaw04]

Eric, I really appreciate that you share videos of your playing, and you sound great. Watching videos of good players playing different horns is pretty fun. I think the listener can gather which horn the player favors, and/or which horn they are comfortable with.
However, I do want to bring this point that I think that videos are not a good way to compare/contrast horns. Videos can be very misleading. There are a lot of variables and nuances in playing the trumpet and how they sound in real life, blending with an ensemble. Different player/horn/mouthpiece combos yield very different results.
I wonder if beginners think that you can actually determine which horn is better from watching someone comparing different horns online. I think this is a huge error. It is beneficial to listen critically and try to spot the differences, so it is a good exercise in developing active listening. But it is not an accurate way to compare instruments.
That is not to say you shouldn't upload videos of your playing or comparing horns, but I just feel that disclaimer is necessary in 2024 trumpet world.
My 2 cents

[ericmpena]

[Brassnose]

I am only an amateur hack and play nowhere near where Eric is at, but I do like the smaller bell better. The articulations seem more precise and the sound is more defined.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[ericmpena]

[TJTS]

Agreed... Still prefer the smaller bell for sure.... Overblowing a 140mm bell would get super old super fast. As I mentioned before, try to tame it down a bit with a smaller or more narrow backbore. Or, experiment and add some gap with the modular system. You of course might create a problem trying to fix a problem. But hey, we trumpet players are made fun of for a reason. (gear related).
_________________
Michael | Owner
www.thejazztrumpetstore.com
Vintage Professional Trumpet Store

[ericmpena]

Update with the AR Feroce 140mm (5 1/2").

I played 5 hours with it this weekend and what I found was:

The lightweight trim makes the horn a bit too unstable. It reminds me a lot of the Edwards X-13 with no sound pillar attached. When pushed, the core of the sound gets a bit out of control.

The medium trim works the best for me. It makes the horn stable enough without changing the feel too much.

The heavy trim makes the horn too stable. Something about the added weight made the slotting tighter but also less forgiving.

In the end, I think the playability of the horn is excellent, BUT I think the larger bell flare is too diffused for what I'm looking for. If the flare was 132mm then I believe I'd love the horn. The problem with the smaller 132mm is that I believe the bell taper is smaller as well, which gives the horn a smaller sound and tighter blow.

My ideal bell setup would be a 5" flare (132mm) but with a large bell taper for an open blow and large sound...which is exactly what I have with the bell on my Thane Performance.

I've messed around with a few things on my Thane as well, and at this point I still believe it's the best playing trumpet I've ever played.

I spent 2 months testing out the MAW pistons, but have concluded that the standard pistons give more consistency and clearer tone.

My Thane also got a Bob Reeves alignment, and after removing the alignment and putting my factory stems back on, I can safely say that the Bob Reeves alignment is no joke. My Thane, which was already awesome, feels and sounds so much better with the alignment. All the notes speak more open, plus the slotting and intonation has noticeably improved.

If you're interested in a Feroce, I'll be listing mine up for sale at a discounted price soon.
_________________
Thane Performing Artist
www.youtube.com/ericmpena
https://thanetrumpets.com/

[stuartissimo]

Thanks for sharing your (very detailed) thoughts on the Feroce, as well as the (excellently played) recording. I enjoyed reading all of it.
_________________
1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces

[Trollet]

[Destructo]