Frate Precision

[annvill]

Has anyone ever tried Frate Precision mouthpieces? What do you think?

[Locutus2k]

Very Good pieces, nice "clean" sound, easy to play, lots of options to choose. I see them more as legit pieces (even if the great Jazz player Fabrizio Bosso does wonders with a Frate piece). I own a couple of Frate but they're not my main pieces.
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Edwards X-13
Lawler TL5 Balanced 30th Anniversary (#2 of 5)
Lawler TL5 L bore
Bach NY Special edition 2008
Flugel Van Laar Oiram Ack
Mark Curry mouthpieces
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[trumpetquest]

Frate mouthpieces are exceptional. The model Fabrizio Bosso plays is amazingly versatile (assuming it's in the size range you play). I would say that it is one of the better crossover designs I've played. I have it in a number of different weights and configurations based on the horn I'm playing.

Confession time: Fabrizio Bosso is one of my favorite players. I was playing a 3C at the time and wanted to try what he was playing (I know...I know...no need to comment...it was a total fan-boy moment).

Turns out, the slightly larger profile and other contributing elements really worked well for me and it felt like "home" - no losses, only gains.

I've been playing on this size now for a number of years and have Frate pieces in all my horns (Bb - piston and rotary, C, Eb, cornet, flugel, picc, and pocket).

The sizing system Dario uses is a bit more complex than some more traditional brands, but once you get it, it's pretty easy to understand.

Quality and consistency is outstanding. Dario is amazing to work with and will totally hook-you-up with what you need.

[annvill]

I'm trying the 3M, 3, 106 and 3M,3,102. A sort of Bach 3C, with a different throat and backbore, more open.
Anyone have direct experience with these two models?

[Locutus2k]

3M 3 106 in my experience is very different than a Bach 3C. Again, i regard these pieces as "perfect" legit pieces, maybe as solo Jazz pieces but i would not use them in a commercial setting. IMHO.
_________________
------------------------
Edwards X-13
Lawler TL5 Balanced 30th Anniversary (#2 of 5)
Lawler TL5 L bore
Bach NY Special edition 2008
Flugel Van Laar Oiram Ack
Mark Curry mouthpieces
------------------------

[annvill]

Can you explain this thing about legit, lead etc. in jazz?

[Locutus2k]

[annvill]

Well at this point I would say that Friar 3M, 3,102 and 3M, 3,106 are great for jazz band / small combo and jazz soloist

[chapahi]

[annvill]

The 3M,3,102 has a cup similar to the Bach 3C, but wider throat and larger backbore.

[Locutus2k]

[Brassnose]

I just acquired a 3M 3 104 piece because I wanted to try out Frate and this one became available used and was my size (as per the cup diameter). There are two things I immediately noticed when I started testing it a few days back: it is noticeably heavier than my AR pieces and the rim feels a lot wider than both my AR and Warburton pieces. The supposedly 16.62 mm diameter feels smaller than both my AR M size cups and my Warburton 5 size tops. Goes to show (again) that testing is the only way to find out how a mouthpiece fits your face.

Interesting feel, very comfortable but at the moment I think it’s a little „tame“, especially compared to the Warburton 5MC/NY I compared it to. Still the easiest ist the AR. Will test more in the upcoming rehearsal on Sunday.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[Brassnose]

Feedback from the rehearsal, if anyone is interested. Compared the Frate 3M 3 104 with said Warburton 5MC/NY and an AR ME40/40S in brass.

Range is the same on all but the feel on the lips, the feel while playing, and the ease of playing is quite different. The AR is the easiest for me, the rim is very comfortable and it feels nice and open. The sound is brilliant but not aggressive and the notes very nicely connect; smooth transitions.

The Warburton feels very similar on the lips, though the cup is a little deeper. The sound is a little less refined and the slots are a little tighter. In direct comparison the AR is the mouthpiece that allows me to play very precisely and adjust sound and intonation on the fly. In contrast, the Warburton feels a smidge less open but allows for a more robust approach. Very nice for playing outside or in a loud-ish setting.

The Frate is quite different. Rather broad rim and the inner diameter feels slightly smaller than the other two. The sound is very warm and somewhat less brilliant than with the other two. With the Frate I had a hard time being heard (the director wanted me to play louder 😜) and the mouthpiece felt significantly tighter than the other two.

So, not sure what I think about the Frate so far. For comfort, general playability, and sound I will definitely stick with AR, it just looks like I’ve found my match. Since I have it anyway the Warburton is a nice backup. The only application where I could see the Frate at the moment would be chamber music, brass quartet or quintet, or possibly with woodwinds (none of which I do at the moment). Will keep it for the moment and see what the future brings.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[ALETRUMPET]

I wanted to resume this old post because I have had a Frate 3M 3 106 for some time. First of all it is very different from the Bach 3C and in my opinion in a negative sense. It is a darker sounding mouthpiece, with less volume. The circle is comfortable at first, then it gets tiring. The sensation I had is of a strange, anomalous mouthpiece, I find it hard to understand in what context it can be used. I've read amazing things about this mouthpiece, but I find it far below similar models

[Bionx]

Tried a couple of size 3 Frate pieces a couple of days ago. Even with the same inner rim diameter, there were just too many different configurations to choose from. So rather than being obsessed with the specs, I tried every single piece with my preferred rim diameter. None of the worked for me. Pity.

The closest I got to getting my ideal sound was the 3M 3 106. It was dark sound but it felt a little too open for my liking. I tried to make the mouthpiece work because I really liked the unique blank and dark shade of gold plate. Made little adjustments to adapt but soon realized that as fatigue crept in, the mouthpiece became harder and harder to work with. Definitely not something I’d want.

But don’t take my word for it, try them out if you can get your hands on them! Many many years back, I tried a Frate piece that belonged to an acquaintance. My memory tells me that particular mouthpiece gave me a beautiful sound but I didn’t have the money for it then. A pity I didn’t noted that mouthpiece’s specs…

Frate’s trumpet trim kit, however, worked excellently for my horn. Phenomenal stuff!
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Bb Yamaha Xeno YTR-9335NYS
Bb Bach Strad 190S37 50th Anniversary
C Bach Philly
C Conn Vintage One
Bb Yamaha Xeno YCR-8335S
Scodwell USA Flugelhorn

[Brassnose]

@bionx: interesting that you found the piece too open. I find Frate much tighter than the AR pieces I mainly play, but in a good sense. The slotting is tighter than on the ARs as well, so for some applications they are very nice.

I agree that Frates are very different from Bach pieces. The rim is wider and is much nicer, more comfortable. It does take a little adjustment coming from different rims.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier

[3861]

Frate: among the worst ever tried, very tiring. After half an hour they are unplayable

[Brassnose]

Figured I’d report back a little on what I have found with the Frate 3M 3 104 I’d already mentioned previously. Just got my rotary back from the shop after a few minor fixes and decided to try the Frate on the rotary (so far I only used it on the Bach and the Conn - too tight for those) for todays rehearsal (45ish member pops style orchestra with three trumpets, French horn, trombone, Bb tuba with me on first trumpet; solid amateur orchestra).

In fact, the result is quite interesting in a good sense. The Frate works very well with my lightweight rotary and the combination produces a wonderful rotary-y sound. The sound is warm and fairly broad but I had absolutely no problems being heard when necessary. Also, the ppp sections were easy and the dynamic range is quite astounding.

My main piece is an AR Resonance ME40/40S in brass and in comparison to the Frate, the AR is LOTS more flexible. The slots on the AR are precise but much more loose; the AR also has an even larger dynamic range than the Frate.

On the AR I can easily play little embellishments like bending notes or add quick arpeggios between two notes and indeed I sometimes use this for effects. In contrast, the Frate locks in very tightly and I haven’t really been able to do the same „flexibility effects“. So, I guess the above poster stating that Frate is great for legit has a serious point. I like it, though.

Finally, range. On my AR I can play (in concert settings) to E above high C. On the Frate I haven’t pushed it yet but high C even at the end of a three hour rehearsal was no problem. While I do find the Frate tighter than the AR by quite a bit, it does not seem to affect the overall playability. Nice piece for rotary - will explore it a little more, maybe look into a 106 backbore or something.

It certainly won’t replace my AR (certainly not on any of the piston horns or for commercial music) but it might be a nice complementary piece for the rotary, especially in a legit context.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier