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chuck in ny
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Joined: 23 Sep 2006
Posts: 3597
Location: New York
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 Posted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| Andy Cooper wrote: | | falado wrote: |
Here is something I sometimes tell non brass playing musicians. Take a 5lb weight and hold it strait out without letting your arm bend or dropping the weight for every verse while I’m playing. That’s what the continuous playing is like and that’s why there are a lot of rests in brass parts, unless you are HerbertL. Clarke.
Just some thoughts, Dave |
I was going to suggest that you give the organist a coffee stirrer (straw type) and have them blow through it as hard as they can for a time equal to 5 verses.
As long as we are in the territory, P.E.T.E. type training and loud whistling can be of some help developing muscles related to endurance. |
andy first i have heard of the loud whistling. arturo has some techinques you can only learn by selling your soul to the dark forces.
a player should not be afraid of going off the reservation and finding their own solutions. there are places in every ditty where you can take the horn off your lips and completely relax your face if only for a split second. that's a small start. |
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falado
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Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 942
Location: Eastern NC
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| Posted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| chuck in ny wrote: | | Andy Cooper wrote: | | falado wrote: |
Here is something I sometimes tell non brass playing musicians. Take a 5lb weight and hold it strait out without letting your arm bend or dropping the weight for every verse while I’m playing. That’s what the continuous playing is like and that’s why there are a lot of rests in brass parts, unless you are HerbertL. Clarke.
Just some thoughts, Dave |
I was going to suggest that you give the organist a coffee stirrer (straw type) and have them blow through it as hard as they can for a time equal to 5 verses.
As long as we are in the territory, P.E.T.E. type training and loud whistling can be of some help developing muscles related to endurance. |
andy first i have heard of the loud whistling. arturo has some techinques you can only learn by selling your soul to the dark forces.
a player should not be afraid of going off the reservation and finding their own solutions. there are places in every ditty where you can take the horn off your lips and completely relax your face if only for a split second. that's a small start. |
In my own playing I take the mouthpiece off my face even for a 1 beat rest. Also, if you’ve read Roger Ingram’s Clinical Notes book you will see he advocates playing at 80% or less. This is also a consideration when playing long passages. I do this my day usually consists of 2 2 hours rehearsals and on 2 days the rehearsals are followed by a brass quintet rehearsal. In long playing situations you have to start thinking about playing smart and not trying to be the hero.
Another thing, Claude Gordon Systematic Approach and Caruso 6 notes followed by flexibility exercises. Some may disagree and that’s ok, it’s up to you and how much time you want to dedicate to being able to last through. 5 verses on 3 or 4 hymns. I vote for play smart.
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gholbrook
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Joined: 28 Feb 2024
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Really liked the hsutrumpets.com article. Fortunately, there are a couple measures rests in most of the verses so that helps a lot. Currently practicing the piece with one minute breaks. I can now get the first couple of times all the way through and then fall back to 90% of the song. End up running it about 5 times before taking a longer break (say a half an hour) Also, some top of staff As but mostly G to G so that helps. My son who is on second part will take one verse on first part and I should be able to make it okay. Have to March 31. Thanks for the feedback. |
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afling
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Joined: 21 Jan 2024
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2024 2:55 pm Post subject: Re: Endurance question? |
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| gholbrook wrote: | | Any thoughts on how or if possible for me to lengthen how long I can play without a rest? |
I would be to play on verses 1 , 3, and 5. You'll sound great every time, and this arrangement will provide the most musical experience for those listening.
My thoughts on building endurance...
I made building endurance a daily goal about two years ago. The majority of my last practice session of the day is always devoted to that. I wish I saw faster progress, but I am seeing progress. It's just a matter of hanging in there.
Sometimes I play full-page etudes. Sometimes I'll pull up a transcribed jazz solo on YouTube and play along. Sometimes I'll pull up one of Andrea Giuffredi's "Play with Me" videos. I've also done some Caruso. You could also try playing lips trills, or practice playing those hymns 5 times through.
Quick tricks that players use include:
1) Get the mouthpiece off your chops, even if it's only for one beat of rest. It gets the blood flowing.
2) Relax your embouchure on a long, low note. It's a trick that Maurice Andre used to get through one of the concertos he recorded.
Building endurance is all about getting your face used to restricting blood flow to your lips. The more you push yourself, the better it gets.
Last edited by afling on Mon Mar 11, 2024 5:16 am; edited 4 times in total |
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Andy Cooper
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Joined: 15 Nov 2001
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Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2024 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| chuck in ny wrote: |
... there are places in every ditty where you can take the horn off your lips and completely relax your face if only for a split second. that's a small start. |
At DePauw University, Robert Grocock taught a technique of a quick "pucker" with the mouthpiece remaining on the lips. It's something you would want to practice as part of a piece - not do randomly in desperation. Of course it's better if you can actually take the mouthpiece off your lips. |
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gbdeamer
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Joined: 31 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 9:14 am Post subject: |
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I do a fair amount of church playing, and the first question I ask the music director during rehearsal is 'how many verses are we doing' for each of the hymnal songs. Based on the response, I determine how many I'll play in a row.
If it's 1 - 3 I'll probably play them all straight through. If it's more than that I'll decide which middle verse I'll lay out. If the song has a refrain and multiple verses, sometimes I'll play first and last verse and lay out on the middle ones (playing all refrains).
It's great that the MD WANTS you to play on all 5, but if it's hurting your chops then don't do it.
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Denny Schreffler
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Location: Tucson
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2024 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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Regarding playing all five verses of a hymn - it's not a matter of negotiation (or submission) - plainly state to the organist that you'll play 1, 3, and 5.
OFF topic suggestion - If you have the confidence, on the last verse, take the alto part up an octave as an ad hoc descant. This works, virtually, all of the time. Rarely, the tenor part is a better choice, so scope the possibilities when you're resting on V's 2 and 4.
—Denny |
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Gawis
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Joined: 17 Jul 2018
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Location: Namibia
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 12:12 pm Post subject: Re: Endurance question? |
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| I am also an amateur playing in church mostly on invitation (not paid). When I have endurance issues (e.g. if off from trumpet due to some e.g. illness) I decline. However I like going there as I seem to improve. I too heard about rest as much as you play. However I noticed that if I play non stop for over an hour until my tone due to tired lips sounds like a beginner and I keep playing it starts being crystal clear again. The added advantage is also that it becomes easier to reach high notes without effort and I could play the whole day. Getting to that stage at least once a week is enough, especially if you keep practicing most day. I play alone trumpet with keyboardist and must accompany congregation and few choirs. When playing with a choir I rest in between by not playing repeats (e.g. if A repeats I only play onces, etc). I do use a mic as well, but that does not really require endurance as I mostly just breath at low volume and the keyboard is not loud (volume for me is endurance killer). However to skip some hymn verses affect enthusiasm of congregation so I would rather step up if I can contribute to their happiness! |
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Jerry
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Joined: 20 Jan 2002
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Location: Kennett Square, Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2024 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| Denny Schreffler wrote: | | Regarding playing all five verses of a hymn - it's not a matter of negotiation (or submission) - plainly state to the organist that you'll play 1, 3, and 5. ... |
I've never gotten any pushback when telling the director I would need rest. They all seemed to understand.
Note: I was always polite and always asked their opinion about which verses I should play and which I should lay out. But I never got any grief when I informed them I could not play multiple verses without rest. |
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