Sticking Valve.

[Rapier232]

I have just got an Eclipse flugel. It was from a friend of mine, it has a sticking 1st valve intermittently. Now, 2 different techs have checked it (one being Eclipse) and say it’s fine. It isn’t. The valve is slow to come back up from about 2/3rds of the way. Not all the time, but several times during one tune. I’ve tried ultrasonic cleaning, changing valve oil, swapping the springs and even putting another spring underneath the bottom of the valve. Nothing works.

Any ideas?

I’ll try toothpaste next.

Actually, I’ve just, as I type, thought I might try swapping the valve for the 2nd or 3rd, to see if they move freely or stick too. (Before try toothpaste, or my DeWalt sander).😎
_________________
"Nearly as good as I need to be. Not nearly as good as I want to be".

Smith-Watkins Bb
Will Spencer Bb
Eclipse Flugel
Smith Watkins K2 Cornet
JP152 C Trumpet
Besson Bugle

[stuartissimo]

Does the stickiness occur primarily if the valve has been pressed down for a while? Because if it does, that means the valve oil isn’t sticking to the valve surface properly (which usually happens with very worn valves, or if the valves are pressed at a slight angle). One way to remedy that is by using thicker valve oil (i.e. Hetman #3, Yamaha vintage, Berp 3, etc.) or even light slide oil (which is even thicker and will make the valves slow but is a good way to diagnose the problem). If the problem persists then a re-plating or rebuild is probably the only option (removing material from the valve surface or casing may make the problem worse, so I would try to find the cause of the problem first before atttempting that).
_________________
1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces

[ldwoods]

Not sure how you plan on trying toothpaste, but my advice is to NOT try it as a honing abrasive. If you clean the valve outside of the horn, then OK, but do NOT apply the toothpaste to the piston and try and work it in or hone it in the valve casing.

I am a huge fan of "Clean Stroke" valve oil. It worked a miracle on an older horn I had, so I often post here suggesting using it.

https://www.austincustombrass.biz/clean-stroke-valve-wash/

It is made by Warburton, but I got mine from ACB.
_________________
Larry Woods
LDWoods

[Rapier232]

Thanks for the replies. The flugel is 8 years old and in good condition apart from the annoying sticking on the upstroke occasionally. I tried putting the 2nd valve in and that works flawlessly, so I surmise it’s the valve that is the cause. I’ll try using tooth paste as an abrasive just on the valve, away from the instrument and then clean it thoroughly. I couldn’t turn down a £3000 flugel for £600, especially as I don’t actually need one.
_________________
"Nearly as good as I need to be. Not nearly as good as I want to be".

Smith-Watkins Bb
Will Spencer Bb
Eclipse Flugel
Smith Watkins K2 Cornet
JP152 C Trumpet
Besson Bugle

[huntman10]

Just a thought, but when you hold the horn, how tightly does your left thumb press on the first valve slide? If you have to tighten your grip as you play, pressure on the outer slide tube may slightly distort the cylinder, causing a piston stop.
_________________
huntman10
Collector/Player of Fine (and not so fine) Brass Instruments including
Various Strads, Yammies, Al Hirt Courtois, Schilkes,
Selmer 25, Getzen Eternas, Kanstuls (920 Pic, CG)
Martin Custom Large Bore, Lots Olds!, Conns, etc.

[Rapier232]

It was happening for the guy I bought it from and happens to me too, so I don’t think that’s the problem.
_________________
"Nearly as good as I need to be. Not nearly as good as I want to be".

Smith-Watkins Bb
Will Spencer Bb
Eclipse Flugel
Smith Watkins K2 Cornet
JP152 C Trumpet
Besson Bugle

[huntman10]

[Rapier232]

Ok, I’ll give it a go, tomorrow.
_________________
"Nearly as good as I need to be. Not nearly as good as I want to be".

Smith-Watkins Bb
Will Spencer Bb
Eclipse Flugel
Smith Watkins K2 Cornet
JP152 C Trumpet
Besson Bugle

[JayKosta]

If 'grip' isn't the solution, I'd try a much heavier valve oil (or pharmacy Mineral Oil), and add thinner oil drop-by-drop onto the piston until acceptable valve speed is restored.
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

[Rapier232]

It’s not the grip. I tried putting an extra spring under the valve and that cured the problem. I wouldn’t want to play it like that though. Maybe I need to find a set of stronger springs and replace all three valve springs.
_________________
"Nearly as good as I need to be. Not nearly as good as I want to be".

Smith-Watkins Bb
Will Spencer Bb
Eclipse Flugel
Smith Watkins K2 Cornet
JP152 C Trumpet
Besson Bugle

[chickenburger]

Try not to apply the toothpaste to the piston but either try to work it in the valve casing.
_________________
Live, laugh and love

[Rapier232]

Not going to put toothpaste inside the valve casing. Too difficult to make sure it’s all cleaned out. I’ll just use it as a mild abrasive on the piston’s surfaces and see how that goes.
_________________
"Nearly as good as I need to be. Not nearly as good as I want to be".

Smith-Watkins Bb
Will Spencer Bb
Eclipse Flugel
Smith Watkins K2 Cornet
JP152 C Trumpet
Besson Bugle

[Rapier232]

Well, fingers crossed, the toothpaste and a change of oil seem to have cured the sticking valve problem. Let’s hope it lasts.
_________________
"Nearly as good as I need to be. Not nearly as good as I want to be".

Smith-Watkins Bb
Will Spencer Bb
Eclipse Flugel
Smith Watkins K2 Cornet
JP152 C Trumpet
Besson Bugle

[rhatheway]