Getzen mouthpipe and receiver

[Jubilee Farmer]

Never had a Getzen before but bought an Eterna serial P05587 this week for my daughter. The mouthpiece fits through the receiver down into the mouthpipe about 1/8" rather than have the normal 1/8" gap between mouthpiece and tube. Anyway, is this normal for Getzen? She says 4th space E and up is noticably harder to play.
(I'm not a forum savvy person, but I've tried to attach a link to the picture of the mouthpiece. You can see the markings for how far down the mouthpiece goes. )

https://drive.google.com/file/d/14pqfy7hs3l2Uk4cii1Wff4LMIiT8FAFB/view?usp=drive_link

[Shifty]

Most folks on this forum hate it when someone starts a reply with "I'm no expert, but..."

Nonetheless, I'm no expert, but I have an Eterna II trumpet and an Eterna cornet. Both appear to provide a normal 1/8th inch or so gap between the end of the mouthpiece and the ledge at the beginning of the leadpipe.

So it's not normal. Something is amiss with either the receiver or the mouthpiece.
_________________
Getzen Eterna 700, Eterna 800
Conn Connstellation 28A, Victor 80A, Connqueror (1903)
ACB Doubler Flugelhorn

[Andy Cooper]

So the trumpet was made in the early 90's - it's possible the receiver has become worn.

Yes that would be unusual for a Getzen using a Bach mouthpiece to actually insert into the leadpipe.

What brand mouthpiece are you using?

Just want to be sure we are not talking about the insertion depth into the receiver being different than another trumpet but the actual gap between the end of the mouthpiece shank and the beginning of the leadpipe.

Scroll down to the "Paper Trick"
https://bobreeves.com/blog/tag/gap/

Does shimming the mouthpiece shank with a piece of paper make the trumpet play better?

[Halflip]

Before you assume that the different insertion marks indicate that the gap is different (if that is indeed what you are doing), take a narrow stick (a disposable coffee stirrer will do) and slide it down the inside of the receiver until it hits the edge of the mouthpipe tube. Then mark the stick right where it emerges from the receiver.

Compare the insertion length of the stick to the distance between the end of the mouthpiece shank and the insertion mark on the shank made by the Getzen. If they are equal, then there is no gap and the mouthpiece inserts too far. On the other hand, if the insertion length of the stick is longer, then the differing position of the insertion mark on the mouthpiece shank simply means that the Getzen receiver is longer than usual, and there is in fact a gap.
_________________
"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)

"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run"

[Jubilee Farmer]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/14pqfy7hs3l2Uk4cii1Wff4LMIiT8FAFB/view?usp=drive_link


Thanks all. I did measure the gap using a stick and found the mouthpiece shanks of the Getzen mouthpiece as well as all the other Bachs extends into the mouthpipe about an 8th inch. I didn't make it clear, but if you look at the very end of the shank in the picture you can see the markings showing where the mouthpipe is rubbing the mouthpiece indicating how far it extends into the mouthpipe. I've wrapped the mouthpiece with a little teflon to shim it out and I'll have her play it today to give me a her thoughts. (Im not a trumpet player.... top note is 4th line D. LOL). I'll dig around for a mouthpipe receiver to replace it if I need.

My next observation is the end of the mouthpipe is worn paper thin by the mouthpiece so that there is virtually no "ledge". Do we know what effect this might have?

By the way, I'm just a high school band director/trombone player who has dabbled in horn repair for locals for 30 years. I stumbled on this forum a few months ago and have found all of you incredibly helpful and fun to read as my daughter and I have been researching some of the horns available to us. The Getzen for $250 was too much to pass up so I got it expecting to have to do a little work on it. Other pics of horn below. 1994yr? - 900 series?? Love your thoughts.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yYh9yxQSHbpDUcFsxxicELAES9AikrHx/view?usp=drive_link
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1o5uAgWcTNTW_rPfsfBLJbI8P_ca4muME/view?usp=drive_link
https://drive.google.com/file/d/155RVMlsVPcCqquKXDnfi2MNlzQHjjvY4/view?usp=drive_link

[Halflip]

[Jubilee Farmer]

(BTW, unlike your first image of the mouthpiece, the links to images of the horn at the bottom of your second post are secured and require permission to access. Could you set them like the first image so that we can see them without permission?)[/quote]

Thanks for letting me know. Trumpet pics permissions updated.

[JayKosta]

From your description, it seems that the receiver itself, or both the receiver and the end of the mouthpipe have been altered to allow the mpc shank to insert so deeply. The typical amount of insertion with a trpt mpc is about 24-26 mm.

If wrapping the mpc shank to give less insertion doesn't solve the problem, then new mouthpipe & receiver ought to do it. Or maybe just a new receiver with the old mouthpipe (if the old mouthpipe hasn't been badly altered).

Out of personal curiosity. I wonder if the alteration was done to allow use of a French horn mpc? If you've 'got one in the drawer' see how it fits and whether it is playable. It could have been a marching band adaptation for a horn player.
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

[oxleyk]

In my experience with a Getzen Severinsen and a Getzen Eterna cornet these instruments do not have a noticeable "ledge" to the mouthpipe but are nearly flush with the inside of the receiver. Some mouthpieces, like Schilke, will bottom out in my Severinsen, but other brands are usually OK.

From the photo it appears that this mouthpiece has been forced into the receiver which may indicate it is slightly too long and can be shortened to fit better. However, there me also be damage to the mouthpipe due to this forcing of the mouthpiece.

Kent

[Shifty]

[Andy Cooper]

Is that an actual Bach mouthpiece? If not, check it with a different mouthpiece.

[Jubilee Farmer]

My curiosity got the best of me and I decided to remove the receiver. Low and behold I could see the receiver had been moved up and re-soldered. In the picture you can see the outline of the original placement of the brace just below the current placement. (Might explain why she has has been unusually sharp.) The receiver doesn't show any signs of wear. The mouthpipe, on the other hand, has quite a flare. See pics:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LVZ0qJprcWyvAxu8NsMxPhQidIoOzyls/view?usp=drive_link

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yoJugYyTiS9xQDCce0OgLM7JZ6Y2YvYW/view?usp=drive_link

I'm going to try to shrink the tube and put things back like they should be. If that doesn't work, I'll order a mouthpipe. If that doesn't work I'll make someone a good deal on a trumpet.

Thanks again for all your input. I've definitely got a heightened appreciation for the physics behind these creatures.

[Halflip]

[Andy Cooper]

[JayKosta]

[Andy Cooper]

[Jubilee Farmer]

The trombone tuba mouthpiece idea was great. Thanks. Got it back together late last night. Verdict is still out on whether a success or not.

Unlike any of the other receivers that I've dealt with (not many - mostly Yamaha) this Getzen has a built in veturi of sorts that stops the leadpipe from going too deep into the receiver and sets the mouthpiece gap at what I measured with 4 mouthpieces to be 1/8". I thought this was very cool. Becoming a more of a Getzen fan everyday!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hTPfhr1k8LU-ZVYTbMDvkWCZhFb8-TOz/view?usp=drive_link

[Shifty]

[JayKosta]

[Andy Cooper]

Be sure you check it with Bach mouthpiece that is not worn. Yamaha's , Schilke's, and some Curry's insert a bit deeper.