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Rhondo Veteran Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2021 Posts: 252
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Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 12:27 pm Post subject: Flugelhorn as your primary |
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Hello all,
I'm curious to hear from professionals or hobbyists, particularly from those who play flugelhorn as their primary or preferred horn, or maybe even play it exclusively, as their only brass instrument…
What have been your experiences?
For those who play trumpet as well, do you regularly practice on both flugelhorn and trumpet, or spend your practice time only on trumpet?
I'm not so interested in hearing from players who play flugel only because the musical piece or gig calls for it. |
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Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 2064 Location: USA
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Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | For those who play trumpet as well, do you regularly practice on both flugelhorn and trumpet, or spend your practice time only on trumpet? |
The Bb trumpet is my main horn, but I also play C trumpet, Bb cornet and flugelhorn regularly (picc less so). Typically I do my morning warm up and fundamentals on my Bb and then divide my afternoon session between Bb trumpet and one of the other horns.
I do that for fun, as I genuinely enjoy playing my Van Laar B1 flugelhorn and my cornet and C trumpet. I also do it for practical reasons. I can practice flugelhorn parts on my trumpet, of course, but the flugelhorn sounds and responds differently than my Bb trumpets, and the mouthpiece I use is quite different (Pickett 3CD on my Bb, usually, and either a Stork 3FL or 3FLS on my flugelhorn). So if I want to perform something well on flugelhorn I need to practice on my flugelhorn. |
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markp Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 2815 Location: Coarsegold, CA
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Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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I love my flugelhorn best and feel that I can express myself best on it. It is always my choice for playing solos in big bands or combos. However, it seems weird to play my daily technical routine on it, especially things like tonguing, flexibility and range studies.
For some reason I’ve never heard addressed by experts, it is common practice, even among flugel specialists, to do all that stuff on the trumpet, but then the benefits carry over to the flugelhorn
It just seems to work best that way, but I’d love to know exactly why, and if anyone else does it differently. |
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2018 Posts: 1022 Location: East Asia
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Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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Every time this comes up someone quotes that saying, "The flugel is your mistress, the trumpet is your spouse. Don't forget which is which, or you may lose your house."
I honestly don't know why flugel is seen this way, but there does seem to be some folk wisdom to it. My guess is it has something to do with both building embouchure and intonation. Sometimes trumpet actually feels more challenging for me, but I feel like it leads to a strong embouchure for range and tone. Flugelhorns can also be kind of "pitchy," so it may be that you run the risk of practicing with poor intonation?
I know a sax player who moved to flugelhorn, and he has a super weird embouchure and airy playing style; it works with jazz, but also seems risky long term.
On the other hand, there are brass band/European traditions where people seem to play flugelhorn almost exclusively. I wonder how that works? |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9075 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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To me it's simple - how are you going to use it? If you're playing alone or in a jazz combo. why not? If you're going to play in an ensemble of any kind, then you have to have a trumpet. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis." Attributed to Chet
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet |
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markp Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 2815 Location: Coarsegold, CA
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Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | To me it's simple - how are you going to use it? If you're playing alone or in a jazz combo. why not? If you're going to play in an ensemble of any kind, then you have to have a trumpet. |
But the question is, even if you choose to perform primarily, or even exclusively on flugelhorn, is it best to do your actual daily technical routine on trumpet? I believe that the answer is probably yes, even if you never actually perform on the trumpet.
Do you agree or disagree with this, and why? |
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Rapier232 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Posts: 1323 Location: Twixt the Moor and the Sea, UK
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Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2024 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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In the UK, the flugel is used in every brass band. It has its own part and player. The majority of those players play the Flugel exclusively. They may have started off on the cornet but change to flugel because the band needs a flugel player. Very few of them have ever even owned a trumpet and the top championship players are exceptional musicians on the instrument.
I play trumpet but own a flugel, that I play for fun. I love the sound of it.
I occasionally help out a local brass band on flugel if their player is not available, which is a nice change. I’ve also played in theatre shows where the music calls for a flugel (as well as a cornet) alongside the trumpet. _________________ "Nearly as good as I need to be. Not nearly as good as I want to be".
Smith-Watkins Bb
Will Spencer Bb
Eclipse Flugel
Smith Watkins K2 Cornet
JP152 C Trumpet
Besson Bugle |
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stuartissimo Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2021 Posts: 1006 Location: Europe
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Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2024 12:52 am Post subject: |
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel wrote: | On the other hand, there are brass band/European traditions where people seem to play flugelhorn almost exclusively. I wonder how that works? |
Indeed. In northwestern Europe there’s an ensemble setting called ‘Fanfare’ or ‘Fanfare orchestra’ which is similar to a brassband, except instead of cornets, they have flugelhorns. The people playing there would likely find that ‘mistress/wife’ quote quite silly.
Many of the people who play flugelhorn in such settings play it as their primary, or only instrument. Lyre holders are standard so they even march with them. So I presume they also do all their practice on it. One of my former teachers also played flugelhorn as he primary instrument, though she also played (and taught) trumpet. The local t-shirt companies even sell shirts with funny flugel-related texts. So yeah, it’s quite a different instrument there.
During my recent visit to Adams, where we tested some flugels, the sales guy also had a quick go. Never heard a flugel played live in the octave above the staff at FF and still sound like a flugel. And he played like it was no big deal.
So yeah, primary flugellists do exist. And they have some serious chops… _________________ 1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces |
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Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 2064 Location: USA
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Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2024 2:40 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | For some reason I’ve never heard addressed by experts, it is common practice, even among flugel specialists, to do all that stuff on the trumpet, but then the benefits carry over to the flugelhorn |
I'm not a "flugel specialist", but I've found that fundamentals learned well on the trumpet translate easily onto the flugelhorn as long as I "polish" them a bit on the flugelhorn.
For example, I don't need to replicate the considerable time I spend doing interval studies on my trumpet (or cornet) on my flugelhorn in order to be proficient at intervals, but I always do a few interval studies on my flugelhorn so that I will be comfortable/confident with the "feel" of those intervals on my flugelhorn. |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2085 Location: Germany
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Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2024 10:24 am Post subject: |
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Personally I like flugel for color, but don’t play it very often, as I prefer trumpet over flugel. However, to the point of the question: there are loads of people in German Ooompah bands, traditional music or the fanfares mentioned above, along with British brass bands that heavily rely on flugel. Most of those people play flugel as their main instrument. One famous example in Europe would be Vlado Kumpan - not my cup of tea but he can certainly play. There are lots of other examples.
We do have a person in our orchestra who has played flugel exclusively for 30+ years and in fact the flugel on second and my (rotary) trumpet on first is a VERY nice mix. So, it can be done and can be quite nice. _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Klier, (Frate or Curry) |
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Rhondo Veteran Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2021 Posts: 252
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Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2024 11:59 am Post subject: |
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Thanks to all who commented- Just what I was looking for. |
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iiipopes Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2015 Posts: 556
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 7:36 am Post subject: |
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel wrote: | Every time this comes up someone quotes that saying, "The flugel is your mistress, the trumpet is your spouse. Don't forget which is which, or you may lose your house."
I honestly don't know why flugel is seen this way, but there does seem to be some folk wisdom to it. My guess is it has something to do with both building embouchure and intonation. Sometimes trumpet actually feels more challenging for me, but I feel like it leads to a strong embouchure for range and tone. Flugelhorns can also be kind of "pitchy," so it may be that you run the risk of practicing with poor intonation?
I know a sax player who moved to flugelhorn, and he has a super weird embouchure and airy playing style; it works with jazz, but also seems risky long term.
On the other hand, there are brass band/European traditions where people seem to play flugelhorn almost exclusively. I wonder how that works? |
This. And that said, I really enjoy my Couesnon flugel on occasion, with contemporary proprietary mouthpieces. Not too dark, they get that inimitable, smoky, piquant tone that is the signature of a true flugel. And best of all: in tune from bottom G to 2nd ledger line C. _________________ King Super 20 Trumpet; Sov 921 Cornet
Bach cornet modded to be a 181L clone
Couesnon Flugelhorn and C trumpet |
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Jimprov New Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2024 Posts: 2 Location: Spokane, Washington
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Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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In response to Rhondo’s original post, until two years ago I had never played a Flugelhorn—I always loved listening to Chuck Mangione and others on FH, but had never considered getting a FH for myself (in retrospect, I understand the “why” of that faulty reasoning, but no need for an explanation here).
As things turned out, I purchased a flugelhorn that very-first/introductory day, and FH has remained my primary instrument since then. For me, the feel, the tone, the delivery, and the capabilities of the FH are a perfect fit for where I had been pushing things since returning to the trumpet a few years ago (evolving through a couple of trumpets and several mouthpieces).
For most people, playing “both” trumpet and FH probably is the best approach--for the reasons mentioned in the above posts, and beyond. Obviously, preferences and approaches are “individual”, and both can change with time and life experiences. In my case, I narrowed my scope of interest and possibilities…which is working out very well for me (I like your term “hobbyist”).
And, it is flat-out exciting to know that there are more mouthpieces and flugelhorns in my not-too-distant future.
Interestingly, after two years of nearly exclusive flugel playing, I now play higher (and more-easily so) on my FH with its deep-cup, large-throated mouthpieces, than on my trumpets (playing on any of my trumpet mouthpieces, including on my shallow GR Bergeron “Studio”). “C above the staff” is “there in spades” on my flugel; that same C is weak, and an unreliable strain for me, on the trumpet. Go figure (??).
Jim (enthusiastic flugel hobbyist) _________________ Jim
Bb:
1948 Reynolds Trumpet
1968 Getzen Eterna, Severinsen Trumpet (purchased new, then put in bottom of closet for 50+ years...now that was dumb)
Brasspire P7 Pocket Trumpet
Schagerl "Killer Queen" Flugel |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2085 Location: Germany
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 2:02 am Post subject: |
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Jim, the fact that you play „better“ (higher, more consistent, …) on a deep flugel piece is likely due to the fact that you have focused on your setup and know it in and out. I come from a big band/commercial background (shallow-ish mouthpiece, commercial setup) but my main gig since 2018 is a pops style orchestra with a WIDE range of music, from classical to everything else. On first trumpet the charts go to high C (higher if I like ) but the main challenge is that there are quite some scores with only a few bars rest and quite a bit of dynamic and phrasing challenges.
Since playing with this orchestra I have been using deeper (medium deep, that is) mouthpieces and have since found that my range is the same on both setups. I „only“ need to practice on both setups to stay in shape with both of them. Playing a shallow piece requires training as does playing a deeper piece, at least for me. _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Klier, (Frate or Curry) |
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benzo277 New Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2024 Posts: 8
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Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2024 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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Due to my living situation currently, I only have my flugelhorn available to practice with and that is what I am doing 100% of my playing on. Technical exercises and all. I am only playing by myself as a hobby so it might be different if I was a professional or performing in front of crowds. I did not go into flugelhorn with the impression that it is mainly an extra thought kind of instrument but rather a different means of expression so its interesting to hear from some of these posts that even flugelhorn specialists practice mostly on trumpet. Going from trumpet to flugelhorn definitely has its quirks. Not sure if its because I'm using a worn out Couesnon but it is very picky about when it wants to behave. Some days I'll think "why did I even buy this" then the next I'll think "I never want to put this down". |
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7013 Location: AZ
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Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 3:52 am Post subject: |
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benzo277 wrote: | Due to my living situation currently, I only have my flugelhorn available to practice with and that is what I am doing 100% of my playing on. Technical exercises and all. I am only playing by myself as a hobby so it might be different if I was a professional or performing in front of crowds. I did not go into flugelhorn with the impression that it is mainly an extra thought kind of instrument but rather a different means of expression so its interesting to hear from some of these posts that even flugelhorn specialists practice mostly on trumpet. Going from trumpet to flugelhorn definitely has its quirks. Not sure if its because I'm using a worn out Couesnon but it is very picky about when it wants to behave. Some days I'll think "why did I even buy this" then the next I'll think "I never want to put this down". |
Try "clocking" your mouthpiece. After warmup, pick something to play that requires accuracy with articulation, intervals and intonation. Pick an index point from the side stamping of your mouthpiece (I use the rim number) and put that in the 12 o'clock position. Play your ditty. Rotate the mouthpiece 45 degrees. Play the ditty. Rotate the mouthpiece another 45 degrees. Repeat until you've gotten back the the 12 o'clock position, making observations along the way. In my experience, there will be one position where the horn plays, sounds and responds the best. Use that position always. I find my playing much more consistent, if I do this. _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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