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Seymor B Fudd
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Joined: 17 Oct 2015
Posts: 1473
Location: Sweden
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 Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 7:53 am Post subject: |
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Back in the day I whistled like Ronnie Ronaldo (In a Monastery Garden) and had a range up to (rather squeaky) G; endurance long dance gigs (4x45 lead) no formal lessons at all.
Today some 50 years later I just can´t whistle at all. Range that I owe up to Eb/E. But developing.....And that with ongoing lessons. And, I must add, I play better than ever (independent judges),; endurance good for long dance gigs playing lead.
So what do you make of that??
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Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
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Trumpets:
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Trumpet Seeker
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Joined: 21 Jul 2018
Posts: 24
Location: Penn Yan, New York
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| Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 8:19 am Post subject: |
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Well now, I don't know. It does seem to cast doubt on the value of whistling though, doesn't it? My experience is similar to yours. When I was a teenager, I could whistle like a bandit. Now, after about fifty years of trumpet playing, I can barely whistle at all. But then, I don't attempt to whistle anywhere near as much as I used to. I can't say I'm playing the best I've ever played, but I'm going quite well, holding down two jobs with my horn. I'm constantly searching for better practice procedures, hence this posting and query. Much appreciate your input---and others as well.
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Couesnon convertible 1951 |
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Richard III
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Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 2655
Location: Anacortes, WA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 8:28 am Post subject: |
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I want to point out that while whistling, one commonly uses a very long aperture tunnel accompanied by various tongue positions. That long aperture tunnel can be quite advantagous to trumpet playing. It is, however, uncommon amoungst players to be aware of this or even recognize the concept of an aperture tunnel. The advantage of a longer tunnel is that the outermost surface of the lips remains relaxed while the contracting muscues of the innermost portion of the tunnel contract to support the embouchure.
Loss of the whistling ability I would surmise might be due to consistently using a very short tunnel which would inhibit the free and relaxed condition necessary for whistling in a musical manner.
Many trumpet methods use a very short tunnel with an abreviated oral cavity to achieve the high range. This does work, but to my ears produces a less optimal tone quality.
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Richard
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abontrumpet
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Joined: 08 May 2009
Posts: 1781
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| Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| Trumpet Seeker wrote: | | Well now, I don't know. It does seem to cast doubt on the value of whistling though, doesn't it? |
Oh, there is no relationship between whistling and trumpet playing. You can be great at one and terrible at the other (and vice/versa). If you're good, it can be useful for ear-training purposes. But I would not try to improve my whistling to improve my trumpet playing. Play trumpet to get better at trumpet. |
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Robert P
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Joined: 28 Feb 2013
Posts: 2596
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| Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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For me no similarity whatsoever. Yeah, you're blowing air through the lips but beyond the tongue rising to raise the pitch the overall physical action, use of the facial muscles, formation of the lips are completely dissimilar.
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HaveTrumpetWillTravel
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Joined: 30 Jan 2018
Posts: 1021
Location: East Asia
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| Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2024 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't think whistling = better trumpet playing, but I do think whistling can help with some mechanics. For me, the tongue arch, "hissing," and vowel sound (ee) all work on whistling. I improved my high range some by practicing whistling high. |
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abontrumpet
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Joined: 08 May 2009
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| Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 4:33 am Post subject: |
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| HaveTrumpetWillTravel wrote: | | I don't think whistling = better trumpet playing, but I do think whistling can help with some mechanics. For me, the tongue arch, "hissing," and vowel sound (ee) all work on whistling. I improved my high range some by practicing whistling high. |
As Bob Ross would say: that is a "happy accident." |
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Seymor B Fudd
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2015
Posts: 1473
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| Richard III wrote: | I want to point out that while whistling, one commonly uses a very long aperture tunnel accompanied by various tongue positions. That long aperture tunnel can be quite advantagous to trumpet playing. It is, however, uncommon amoungst players to be aware of this or even recognize the concept of an aperture tunnel. The advantage of a longer tunnel is that the outermost surface of the lips remains relaxed while the contracting muscues of the innermost portion of the tunnel contract to support the embouchure.
Loss of the whistling ability I would surmise might be due to consistently using a very short tunnel which would inhibit the free and relaxed condition necessary for whistling in a musical manner.
Many trumpet methods use a very short tunnel with an abreviated oral cavity to achieve the high range. This does work, but to my ears produces a less optimal tone quality. |
You might be right - but - in my case I do feel that my latter day inability to whistle has more to do with my lips. My tongue seems to be the same as back in the day, as is the aperture tunnel; In fact I have never stopped playing. The intermediate variable might have something to do with my use of the BE method - with its focus on lip flexibilities and "special "exercises"(RI, RO)??? Another variable is my age. I am very much older now than back in the day.......And - honestly I am very intrigued by the fact that age does not seem to have cut my ability to play. Yet.....But I practice a lot more than before.
On the other hand, lacking formal lessons I kept playing on a fairly high amateur level throughout the 1970s 1980s 1990s 2000s while using, as my main practice diet, the Advanced lip flexibilities by Charles Colin.
So the cause of my whistling inability remains obscure.
Whatever - I don´t miss whistling - but, immensely appreciate the place where I am today in my playing. The BE is the key to this. I am sure of that.
While in no way denying your views - when it comes to tone quality I´ve gotten my (ample) share of admiration.
But I might be the exception to this alleged rule???
_________________
Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974)
Last edited by Seymor B Fudd on Sat Mar 30, 2024 2:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Trumpet Seeker
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Joined: 21 Jul 2018
Posts: 24
Location: Penn Yan, New York
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| Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 10:00 am Post subject: |
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Forgive my ignorance, but what is the BC method?
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Mister Trumpet
Getzen Capri C in lacquer
Getzen Capri C in silver
Selmer Radial B-flat in lacquer
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Andy Cooper
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Joined: 15 Nov 2001
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Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 10:08 am Post subject: |
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OK - I whistle in the car - very, very loud with firm breathing support. It's not pretty but it firms up the muscles around the corners of my lips.
I do it as a substitute for playing as I would P.E.T.E or pencil tricks.
It's not as useful as actual playing but for me, it's better than nothing . |
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JayKosta
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 3308
Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| Trumpet Seeker wrote: | | Forgive my ignorance, but what is the BC method? |
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Did you mean 'BE method'?
Balanced Embouchure - (my understanding) is basically a method of training and developing the muscles / tissue / positions / alignments / etc. that are involved in establishing and controlling the embouchure. Not so much a specific way of 'making the embouchure', more a method of discovering how the embouchure can be manipulated, finding what works for the individual, and developing the skill and endurance to do the manipulations that work best.
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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Trumpet Seeker
Regular Member
Joined: 21 Jul 2018
Posts: 24
Location: Penn Yan, New York
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| Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 10:45 am Post subject: |
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Thanks very much. That's of interest to me. How do I learn how to do it?
Is there a method book? Where did you learn about it?
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Mister Trumpet
Getzen Capri C in lacquer
Getzen Capri C in silver
Selmer Radial B-flat in lacquer
Selmer Radial B-Flat silver and gold
Couesnon convertible 1951 |
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JayKosta
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 3308
Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2024 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| Trumpet Seeker wrote: | Thanks very much. That's of interest to me. How do I learn how to do it?
Is there a method book? Where did you learn about it? |
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Balanced Embouchure ?
has its own sub-forum -
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=29
google will give lots of sites to visit.
My understanding is that there is a book, and lesson plans for a guide through the process.
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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