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rhatheway Veteran Member
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Joined: 02 Apr 2024 Posts: 257 Location: Texas
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Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2024 2:56 pm Post subject: How to increase endurance |
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Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum here.
I just picked my trumpet back up last July after not playing for about 30-35 years. I joined a local community band and have been working on getting both my chops and my endurance back. My chops are starting to come along pretty well and since last July I've already moved from playing 4th parts to playing 2nd and some 1st parts. The problem is though that my endurance is not where I'd like it to be. I can play very easily for about 45-60 minutes as long as it's not 100% non-stop playing, but the more I play, the more I seem to run out of steam.
I'm working through my Arban book, but wanted to see if anyone had any other exercises they can recommend. I'm not looking for a magic bullet, I know there ain't no such thing, so I'm just looking to see if anyone has any practice exercises or techniques that may not be in the Arban book that I should add to my practice.
Thanks all! _________________ Richard H
------------------------------------------
Working on getting my chops back...
“Without music, life would be a mistake” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
1958 Conn Director 14A
1968 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1977 Reynolds Medalist CR-58 |
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Richard III Heavyweight Member
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Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2671 Location: Anacortes, WA
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Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2024 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | I'm working through my Arban book, but wanted to see if anyone had any other exercises they can recommend. I'm not looking for a magic bullet, I know there ain't no such thing, so I'm just looking to see if anyone has any practice exercises or techniques that may not be in the Arban book that I should add to my practice. |
There's another contributor here that uses a method I've used for a while. I don't remember who the well known pro that also does this method but here it is. Call it the stack method. Pull everything you have to play, real songs, real works, and stack them up near you. Start working your way through. If you get tired take a break, then continue. Every one you play goes to the bottom of the stack.
I have a stack of cornet solos that I got free from https://imslp.org/wiki/Main_Page
Then work, work, work. _________________ Richard
Today's Trumpet: 1937 Cleveland Toreador
Today's Cornet: York Eminence
Today's Mouthpieces: Cleveland T and C |
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Quadstriker Veteran Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2021 Posts: 123
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Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2024 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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As an adult comeback player I have found Mitchell on Trumpet to be a very valuable progressive method. |
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p.f.c New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2024 Posts: 2
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Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2024 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe try working through Carmine Caruso's musical calisthenics for brass. I have recently been getting into it with good results. |
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Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 2090 Location: USA
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Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 12:33 am Post subject: |
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Welcome back to trumpet playing! You've only been back on the horn for around 9 months, so I'd say that being able to play for 40-45 consecutive minutes is pretty good. Not where you want to be, I understand, but it is important to have that perspective.
I'm assuming that your foremost concern regarding endurance is getting through rehearsals and performances. Your practice routine and how you pace yourself during rehearsals are the most important factors.
I'll address pacing first as it can have an immediate impact. Take a break during some unison passages. Don't try to play too loudly, even if the dynamic marking is ff or fff, and don't try to play any upper register notes you struggle with. It may feel weird, at first, to lay out and hold back, but you'll sound and play better for longer, and that's your goal.
I'll split my response and address daily practice separately. |
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Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 2090 Location: USA
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Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 1:54 am Post subject: |
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Ok, on to daily practice. First, don't practice on days you have rehearsals. A brief warm up is fine, but don't turn it into a fundamentals routine. If you only have one rehearsal per week you might even make the day before rehearsal an easy practice day to make sure your chops are fresh for that rehearsal.
Second, you need to think about how you practice to build endurance. Building endurance is a gradual thing. Let's start with an etude, such as one from Hering's 40 Etudes. Play it from the beginning and go for as many measures as you can with good form. Take a short break (10-15 seconds) and then resume the etude. If you get to the end and still have good form, start again from the beginning. Repeat this for a few times, never playing past the point where you begin to lose good form.
You mentioned that you are practicing from Arban's Method. You could take this same approach to Arban's First Studies, thinking of them as one big etude. Just remember that this is an endurance-building exercise and not traditional practice, so you keep moving even if you make a mistake.
Third, you need to think about what you practice. Range and endurance are related, but don't necessarily develop in parallel. If your range is limited, exercises like Clarke's first and second Technical Study are really useful. Each exercise in the first study covers an augmented fourth; a perfect fifth in the case of the second study. They are fairly compact.
Etudes, on the other hand, often cover a wider range. Etude #1 in Forty Etudes covers a tenth. Similarly with Arban's First Studies. #11, for example, covers a ninth. Exercises that cover a wider range will likely wear you out faster. A mix of both kinds of practice material is helpful. |
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Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 2090 Location: USA
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Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 2:12 am Post subject: |
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And one parting through regarding practice material. Arban's Method is great, particularly if you are using Eric Bolvin's excellent The Arban Manual to guide you. But there are a few methods that really hone in on endurance in a way that I think is particularly useful for those studying on their own.
Mitchell on Trumpet, by Harold Mitchell covers the bases better than any comprehensive method I have come across.
Bill Knevitt's sequence of Getting Started Right (for beginners and early comeback players) and The Developing Trumpet Player is a good alternative. |
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abontrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 May 2009 Posts: 1826
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Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 4:17 am Post subject: |
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There are a number of posts on Trumpetherald about this if you google "endurance trumpetherald.com"
That being said, the key to your problem will be in the part where you say "the more I play, the more I seem to run out of steam." The key is to stop and put the horn away when you feel yourself BEGINNING to run out of steam. You can return to it later when your steam-engine is back up and running. Part of what we are doing to gain endurance is being able to keep our "form" intact for longer periods of time. Form comes in many...forms...but it has to do with embouchure and habits (air, posture, mental focus). The more we practice "perfect form" the more it will be our default. From consistent form, you build efficiency, and in turn give yourself the best shot at increasing endurance.
For advanced players there is also good advice, but the act of building endurance takes a more specialized form of training. |
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rhatheway Veteran Member
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Joined: 02 Apr 2024 Posts: 257 Location: Texas
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Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 5:07 am Post subject: |
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Thank you to everyone who has responded, I truly appreciate it!
All your comments and suggestions make sense, so I'll look into them. I know that practice methods vary from person to person, but my approach to it has been to try and practice at least an hour every day (usually in the evening after work), warm up (using Arban, Rubank, or Small), practice music we're playing, then warm down. The day of rehearsal I don't practice, other than to do the Caruso 6 notes exercise an hour and a half or so before rehearsal.
I realize I may be pushing too hard, too fast (hey, I used to play lead trumpet back in the day and in my mind I still think I can), so I'll definitely listen to and learn from the collected wisdom here. I'm not 30 anymore, so I realize that how I played then compared to how I play now needs to change (or at least until I'm back in playing shape). ![](images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif) _________________ Richard H
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Working on getting my chops back...
“Without music, life would be a mistake” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
1958 Conn Director 14A
1968 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1977 Reynolds Medalist CR-58
Last edited by rhatheway on Fri Apr 05, 2024 5:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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jeirvine Veteran Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2022 Posts: 358 Location: Baltimore, MD USA
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Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 7:30 am Post subject: |
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For me, remembering to take micro breaks - getting the horn off the lips to allow blood flow and recovery - for even a half second during a rest makes a huge difference in how long I last in a rehearsal or concert. _________________ 1932 King Silvertone Artist Bore
1945 Buescher 400
1946 Olds Super
1947 Olds Super Cornet
1948 Couesnon flugelhorn
1951 Olds Special
1956 Martin Committee
1964 Olds Recording
1968 Bach 329 C
1996 Bach 37 |
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Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 2090 Location: USA
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Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 8:14 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | ALl your comments and suggestions make sense, so I'll look into them. I know that practice methods vary from person to person, but my approach to it has been to try and practice at least an hour every day (usually in the evening after work), warm up (using Arban, Rubank, or Small), practice music we're playing, then warm down. The day of rehearsal I don't practice, other than to do the Caruso 6 notes exercise an hour and a half or so before rehearsal. |
A few more thoughts based on your response. First, you might consider breaking your practice into two shorter sessions. That's not always possible, I know, but you are less likely to wear yourself out that way.
Also, is your warm up a relatively brief process to prepare yourself to play music, or is it more of a fundamentals routine? If your warm up is brief (which is how I would classify a true warm up), and you are really just warming up, practicing band music, and then warming down, you may be missing out on an important part of practice: Fundamentals.
You need to work on the music you'll be performing, of course, but to really build yourself up -- and make that music easier and easier to play -- you need to spend time on the fundamentals: Articulation, flexibility, scales/arpeggios, multiple tonguing, etc. Arban's Method is a great source of material for that purpose.
Finally, Caruso's Six Notes is a really useful exercise, but like the other exercises in Musical Calisthenics for Brass, you might find that it is tiring (if played correctly) at this stage in your comeback. If your chops don't feel completely fresh after you play it, don't use it as your pre-rehearsal warm up. |
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JWG Veteran Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2011 Posts: 260
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Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 9:09 am Post subject: |
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Endurance really comes down to one thing: Muscle fiber strength in both fast-twitch and slow-twitch muscle fibers.
So, breaking your sessions in smaller time frames has great value. I stop practicing as soon as I feel that the foundational muscles of my embouchure starting to build up lactic acid and become unresponsive.
I do embouchure strength building exercises away from my practice sessions, such as free-buzzing, mouthpiece buzzing, Sandovalves buzzing, and Warburton P.E.T.E. training.
Some people on this forum will chastise you for doing strength building exercises criticizing that you do not play like you buzz, etc. However, that's not the point. Athletes of every sport hit the weight room to improve their performance in their sport, even if their sport involves no weights.
There exists every reason to build up fast-twitch and slow-twitch muscle fibers in our embouchure, because strong foundational muscles in your embouchure translates to more endurance and a more controlled and predictable high range. _________________ Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb and C with 1.5 TCC, XT, C, C-O, O, & L mouthpieces
Bach 183S (undersprung valves & straight taper pipe) with 1.5 Flip Oakes XF |
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Trumpjerele Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Feb 2019 Posts: 188 Location: Spain
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Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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To improve endurance I have typically seen two approaches: increase muscular strength or improve efficiency.
We already have in the discussion strength and gym and athletes.
. _________________ Notice!!! Amateur musician without formal studies
Trumpet: Yamaha 8310Z
Mouthpiece: the great Yamaha11b4
Sax tenor: Yamaha YTS 23
Mouthpiece: Otto link tone edge |
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Uberopa Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Dec 2003 Posts: 935 Location: Canada
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Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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I have been working to rebuild after a catastrophic embouchure collapse.. I decided to invest some time with the Cat Anderson method. I had tried it in the past with some limited success. This time I decided to give the controversial Kurt Thompson's Five Minute Whisper C method a go. Thirty days of five minutes a day practice promised to deliver increased endurance and perhaps an additional half step in range.
Three weeks in I honestly feel that my endurance with my community band has improved so that I am able to complete the entire rehearsal without being completely blown. Not bad for a 73 year old geezer coming back from a heart attack. As for additional range I can not report that my range has increased. So far I can more easily access the upper register that I used to have. I plan to complete the month then switch to the Caruso 6 note exercise. I like the breath control it promotes.
I recognize that Kurt Thompson is not well regarded by many. I thought that his approach to the Cat Anderson method was concise and well reasoned. It seemed to be a small time investment for a reasonable gain. No overblown claims or ego. It is a bit difficult to evaluate increased endurance. I can only say that my practice sessions last longer and band rehearsals are less taxing.
This is just my personal experience. |
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stuartissimo Heavyweight Member
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Joined: 17 Dec 2021 Posts: 1037 Location: Europe
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Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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Trumpjerele wrote: | To improve endurance I have typically seen two approaches: increase muscular strength or improve efficiency. |
For me the latter yielded much better results than the former, if not at least because it also improved my tone, sound and control as well. Unfortunately I still have a tendency to fall back to trying to force things during more stressful moments (like performances). Old habits die hard. _________________ 1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mpc |
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p.f.c New Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2024 Posts: 2
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Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2024 4:39 am Post subject: |
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stuartissimo wrote: | Trumpjerele wrote: | To improve endurance I have typically seen two approaches: increase muscular strength or improve efficiency. |
For me the latter yielded much better results than the former, if not at least because it also improved my tone, sound and control as well. Unfortunately I still have a tendency to fall back to trying to force things during more stressful moments (like performances). Old habits die hard. |
I don't mean to hijack the thread but I am wondering, what does one do to play with efficiency? |
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rhatheway Veteran Member
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Joined: 02 Apr 2024 Posts: 257 Location: Texas
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Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2024 5:38 am Post subject: |
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Dayton wrote: | A few more thoughts based on your response. First, you might consider breaking your practice into two shorter sessions. That's not always possible, I know, but you are less likely to wear yourself out that way.
Also, is your warm up a relatively brief process to prepare yourself to play music, or is it more of a fundamentals routine? If your warm up is brief (which is how I would classify a true warm up), and you are really just warming up, practicing band music, and then warming down, you may be missing out on an important part of practice: Fundamentals.
You need to work on the music you'll be performing, of course, but to really build yourself up -- and make that music easier and easier to play -- you need to spend time on the fundamentals: Articulation, flexibility, scales/arpeggios, multiple tonguing, etc. Arban's Method is a great source of material for that purpose.
Finally, Caruso's Six Notes is a really useful exercise, but like the other exercises in Musical Calisthenics for Brass, you might find that it is tiring (if played correctly) at this stage in your comeback. If your chops don't feel completely fresh after you play it, don't use it as your pre-rehearsal warm up. |
My warm up usually consists of some scales to get the blood flowing, a few arpeggios for some flexibility, a few octave exercises, then Caruso 6 notes, and then into the music. At the end, I warm down (probably not long enouigh, which may be another question) by usually doing low intervals. _________________ Richard H
------------------------------------------
Working on getting my chops back...
“Without music, life would be a mistake” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
1958 Conn Director 14A
1968 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1977 Reynolds Medalist CR-58 |
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rhatheway Veteran Member
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Joined: 02 Apr 2024 Posts: 257 Location: Texas
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Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2024 5:41 am Post subject: |
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JWG wrote: | Endurance really comes down to one thing: Muscle fiber strength in both fast-twitch and slow-twitch muscle fibers.
So, breaking your sessions in smaller time frames has great value. I stop practicing as soon as I feel that the foundational muscles of my embouchure starting to build up lactic acid and become unresponsive.
I do embouchure strength building exercises away from my practice sessions, such as free-buzzing, mouthpiece buzzing, Sandovalves buzzing, and Warburton P.E.T.E. training.
There exists every reason to build up fast-twitch and slow-twitch muscle fibers in our embouchure, because strong foundational muscles in your embouchure translates to more endurance and a more controlled and predictable high range. |
Is there a recommended shorter length to break them into? Since I practice in the evenings after work, I don't have a huge amount of time, so want to be sure and maximize that to the fullest extent. _________________ Richard H
------------------------------------------
Working on getting my chops back...
“Without music, life would be a mistake” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
1958 Conn Director 14A
1968 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1977 Reynolds Medalist CR-58 |
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rhatheway Veteran Member
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Joined: 02 Apr 2024 Posts: 257 Location: Texas
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Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2024 5:43 am Post subject: |
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Uberopa wrote: | I have been working to rebuild after a catastrophic embouchure collapse.. I decided to invest some time with the Cat Anderson method. I had tried it in the past with some limited success. This time I decided to give the controversial Kurt Thompson's Five Minute Whisper C method a go. Thirty days of five minutes a day practice promised to deliver increased endurance and perhaps an additional half step in range.
Three weeks in I honestly feel that my endurance with my community band has improved so that I am able to complete the entire rehearsal without being completely blown. Not bad for a 73 year old geezer coming back from a heart attack. As for additional range I can not report that my range has increased. So far I can more easily access the upper register that I used to have. I plan to complete the month then switch to the Caruso 6 note exercise. I like the breath control it promotes.
I recognize that Kurt Thompson is not well regarded by many. I thought that his approach to the Cat Anderson method was concise and well reasoned. It seemed to be a small time investment for a reasonable gain. No overblown claims or ego. It is a bit difficult to evaluate increased endurance. I can only say that my practice sessions last longer and band rehearsals are less taxing.
This is just my personal experience. |
I'm not familiar with either of the ones you mentioned, so I'll need to look into those. Thanks, and glad to hear that it's working for you. _________________ Richard H
------------------------------------------
Working on getting my chops back...
“Without music, life would be a mistake” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
1958 Conn Director 14A
1968 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1977 Reynolds Medalist CR-58 |
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stuartissimo Heavyweight Member
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Joined: 17 Dec 2021 Posts: 1037 Location: Europe
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Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2024 5:48 am Post subject: |
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p.f.c wrote: | I don't mean to hijack the thread but I am wondering, what does one do to play with efficiency? |
For me it’s quite literal: playing in a way that minimizes the effort required for the result I try to achieve. It’s basically about finding the resonant sweet spot of each note, playing with the instrument instead of trying to force it, and if you get it right, suddenly a lot of the ‘resistance’ is gone. There’s a delicate balance point in playing where the right combination of muscles and air allows the player to create a resonant sound full of overtones, while blowing surprisingly softly in order to produce said sound.
Funny part is that it also makes a huge difference to the sound/tone because the playing is so much more relaxed. But the mental change of not forcing the notes, especially high notes, and after you’ve done so for years, is quite difficult in my experience.
Equipment also plays some part in efficiency. The right tool for the right job allows you to work less hard for the result you want to achieve. But it’s primarily about how you play.
That’s just my take on it though, others may be able to explain better. _________________ 1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mpc |
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