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Andy Cooper Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1862 Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 5:49 pm Post subject: How do you tune an adjustable cup mute? |
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I use fixed cup - cup mutes - and am used to filing the corks to get the response I want. Two things happen when you file the corks on a fixed cup - the cup gets closer to the bell and the cone of the mute inserts farther into the bell.
My question is about adjustable cup mutes.
I noticed a friend struggling with intonation problems using their Denis Wick cup. Sliding the cup did not seem to resolve the problem. I handed them my fixed cup Tom Crown that happened to insert properly into their bell - no problems.
Do you need to file the corks on an adjustable mute by tuning the "straight mute" first, then add the cup or do you keep moving the cup back to a fixed distance as you file the corks?
No one on YouTube seems to cover this question. |
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Rhondo Veteran Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2021 Posts: 268
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Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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I’ve been wondering this as well since I plan on getting a Huber adjustable cup mute.
Had a different question for Frank there but haven’t gotten a response this week…
I don’t know if it means anything but he’s got ‘File corks if necessary’ printed on his fixed cup mute but not on the body of the adjustable cup mutes. |
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Nathan.Sobieralski Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Mar 2006 Posts: 190
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Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2024 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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This depends somewhat on the mute, some mutes will be slightly flatter in cup configuration compared to just the middle section as a straight. These issues are more are what I endeavored to solve with my mute designs:
www.s-mute.com
Very simple to adjust the depth of the mute one way or the other with my patented removable cork system. I sell conversion adapters for other mutes as well, worth a look I think. _________________ Dr. Nathan Sobieralski
www.s-mute.com
Principal Trumpet, Sequoia Symphony
Department of Music (Trumpet)
California State University, Fresno |
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Andy Cooper Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1862 Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2024 1:57 am Post subject: |
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Nathan.Sobieralski wrote: |
Very simple to adjust the depth of the mute one way or the other with my patented removable cork system. I sell conversion adapters for other mutes as well, worth a look I think. |
I saw the adapters - brilliant solution.
I wanted to loan a mute to another player the other day - but it would have required me to file down my mute corks. |
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Andy Cooper Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1862 Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2024 2:16 am Post subject: |
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Rhondo wrote: | I’ve been wondering this as well since I plan on getting a Huber adjustable cup mute.
Had a different question for Frank there but haven’t gotten a response this week…
I don’t know if it means anything but he’s got ‘File corks if necessary’ printed on his fixed cup mute but not on the body of the adjustable cup mutes. |
Might have something to do with the cone shape - straight sides vs. bell shaped vs. adjustable "bottle" shaped. |
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2351 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2024 4:26 am Post subject: |
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The same as you might adjust/file the corks on a straight mute: take the cup part off, and put the mute in and test if you can play down to a low F# without the note burbling. If you can't get the low notes to speak well, then carefully file the corks (evenly) until those notes speak.
Then replace the cup and this should help. How close to the bell the cup is will change the sound and playability drastically - the benefit of the adjustable design. Generally, I find the best to be around 1/4" from the bell.
And all mutes affect pitch and tuning, some more than others. Some mutes, especially cups, counterintuitively drive the tuning down (flat). Get out the tuner.
The other aspect that affects tuning and pitch discrepancies is the shape of the bottom of the mute - some are flat, others with convex or concave shapes.-makes a difference. _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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Andy Cooper Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1862 Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2024 8:02 am Post subject: |
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I'm betting that a lot of non-pro trumpet players buy an adjustable cup mute, set the distance close to the bell, and assume that - that's as good as it gets.
I'm sure if I had purchased one, I would have done the same. I'm a traditional sort of guy more interested in maximizing fixed equipment, but I'm surrounded by high quality adjustables. |
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Rhondo Veteran Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2021 Posts: 268
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Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2024 9:15 am Post subject: |
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zaferis wrote: | The same as you might adjust/file the corks on a straight mute: take the cup part off, and put the mute in and test if you can play down to a low F# without the note burbling. If you can't get the low notes to speak well, then carefully file the corks (evenly) until those notes speak.
Then replace the cup and this should help. How close to the bell the cup is will change the sound and playability drastically - the benefit of the adjustable design. Generally, I find the best to be around 1/4" from the bell.
And all mutes affect pitch and tuning, some more than others. Some mutes, especially cups, counterintuitively drive the tuning down (flat). Get out the tuner.
The other aspect that affects tuning and pitch discrepancies is the shape of the bottom of the mute - some are flat, others with convex or concave shapes.-makes a difference. |
This is what I suspected after thinking about it a bit more.
Rubbing down the corks as part of the process is mentioned just after 1:10 here in this review of the Denis Wick adjustable cup mute:
[youtube] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dhyw8D2BJEw&t=356s[/youtube] |
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Nathan.Sobieralski Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Mar 2006 Posts: 190
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Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2024 9:25 am Post subject: |
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For those who may be interested, here are some images of the adapter I developed that allows you to selectively install corks of varying thickness. It does require some skill with epoxy!
Here is a paper I wrote detailing the utility of such a device, as well as some experimentation demonstrating its effect (with a straight mute).
https://s-mute.com/pages/research
_________________ Dr. Nathan Sobieralski
www.s-mute.com
Principal Trumpet, Sequoia Symphony
Department of Music (Trumpet)
California State University, Fresno |
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Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 2073 Location: USA
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Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | For those who may be interested, here are some images of the adapter I developed that allows you to selectively install corks of varying thickness. |
I have the adapters on several of my straight mutes and my H&B cup (but not any adjustable cups). They work really well and are quite durable. |
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