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stuartissimo
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2021
Posts: 993
Location: Europe
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 Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2024 11:38 pm Post subject: JPro JP851 double trumpet case review |
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Recently I've been looking for a double case to hold both my trumpet and flugelhorn. Given that the latter is shaped more like a beefy cornet, the standard trumpet/flugel combo cases don't really work. In my search I came across the John Packer JP851 Pro Lightweight Double Trumpet Case and I figured I'd share my thoughts about the case.
Outer dimensions
-21.5"/54,5cm long (23.2"/59cm with handle & studs)
-8.7"/22cm width
-8.3"/21cm height (9.4"/24cm with outer pocket)
Inner dimensions
-20.3"/51,5cm long
-7.3"/18,5cm width
-6.5"/16,5cm height
Pocket dimensions
-20.5"/52cm long
-7.5"/19cm width
-1.2"/3cm height
First of all, this case is really compact. It's barely bigger than a Protec CT except it holds 2 trumpets instead of 1. There are probably single cases out there that are bigger. The vendor mentioned he sold quite a few of them to people who want to use it for a single trumpet + mutes, and I can definitely see why. It also comes with backpack straps and can be used with a shoulder band. It fit my cornet-sized flugel just fine, and with the modular blocks I can definitely see this case being useful a versatile storage solution. The diagonal separator can be removed so it may be possible to DIY some padding to carry a regular-sized flugelhorn in it in Bags of Spain-style (I haven't tested or measured whether that would work though).
I have used a Protec 301D in a similar fashion (mutes + trumpet, or multiple instruments) but after a while I found it a little too bulky as a single case. Not so with the JP581. It's also quite light, has a hard shell (carbon fiber I think).
The compactness comes at a cost though: the padding feels relatively thin. It's the main reason why I ended up returning the case because while I probably would have been ok with it for trumpets (where some additional DIY padding can be fit), for my barely-fitting flugel it's just too little. There is some additional padding on the long underside (when using the side handle) but no additional padding on the short underside (when using the top handle). Rubber bottom studs might have contributed to lessen the impact of putting down the bag somewhat, but unfortunately on the JP851 they're metal.
Other minor downsides are the backpack strap rings sticking out if no straps are attached (but they probably wouldn't catch onto things given they face the body when carried). A shoulder band would attach to the back of the case instead of the sides, which causes the corner of the case to dig into the body because it has to be carried at an angle.
Compared to the 301D, the JP851 is lighter, smaller (in both width and height) and has thinner padding. It's also slightly more expensive (+10 euros).
Overall the JP851 is a very good solution for players who prefer flexibility and want to carry as little 'case' as possible. It's protection is 'good enough', provided you do nothing weird with it.
N.B. For myself, I have decided to return the case because I found the padding just a little too thin for my flugel, but for 2 trumpets I'm sure I could have DIYed a bit to remedy that. I also took some measurements for anyone interested, because listings tend to omit some (or all) of them.
_________________
1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2024 6:31 am Post subject: Re: JPro JP851 double trumpet case review |
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| stuartissimo wrote: | Recently I've been looking for a double case to hold both my trumpet and flugelhorn. Given that the latter is shaped more like a beefy cornet, the standard trumpet/flugel combo cases don't really work. In my search I came across the John Packer JP851 Pro Lightweight Double Trumpet Case and I figured I'd share my thoughts about the case.
Thanks very much. This has been my main case for quite a few years. I have an older one with a yellow JP logo.
Outer dimensions
-21.5"/54,5cm long (23.2"/59cm with handle & studs)
-8.7"/22cm width
-8.3"/21cm height (9.4"/24cm with outer pocket)
Inner dimensions
-20.3"/51,5cm long
-7.3"/18,5cm width
-6.5"/16,5cm height
Pocket dimensions
-20.5"/52cm long
-7.5"/19cm width
-1.2"/3cm height
First of all, this case is really compact. It's barely bigger than a Protec CT except it holds 2 trumpets instead of 1.
It is also taller than a lot of double cases (although narrower), so will hold a short model cornet (even a large wrap one as you are finding, since it would have fitted your flugel with a cornet wrap) in one of the slots, maybe even both of them, if the cornets are not too wide.
There are probably single cases out there that are bigger.
Quite likely.
The vendor mentioned he sold quite a few of them to people who want to use it for a single trumpet + mutes, and I can definitely see why.
So, can I.
It also comes with backpack straps and can be used with a shoulder band.
What is a shoulder band. a shoulder strap? If so, my older one didn't come with one, and I've checked my case, and there are no rings to attach one, just the four backpack strap rings on the back. Maybe there has been a change to this case, but I can't see it on the photos if so.
It fit my cornet-sized flugel just fine, and with the modular blocks I can definitely see this case being useful a versatile storage solution. The diagonal separator can be removed so it may be possible to DIY some padding to carry a regular-sized flugelhorn in it in Bags of Spain-style (I haven't tested or measured whether that would work though).
Maybe, I haven't tried, and my Bach 183 flugel has a very large wrap anyhow.
I have used a Protec 301D in a similar fashion (mutes + trumpet, or multiple instruments) but after a while I found it a little too bulky as a single case. Not so with the JP581. It's also quite light, has a hard shell (carbon fiber I think).
It is very compact and light. It is interesting that it is less bulky than a protec double pro-pac.
The compactness comes at a cost though: the padding feels relatively thin.
It has always seemed fine to me to be honest. I admittedly haven't tried dropping my case with my trumpet and cornet inside, and obviously don't intend to, but I've taken mine everywhere (I do not fly or take public transport with my horns), and all has been fine.
It's the main reason why I ended up returning the case because while I probably would have been ok with it for trumpets (where some additional DIY padding can be fit), for my barely-fitting flugel it's just too little.
Ok if it is a fairly tight fit, but I've never added any extra padding.
There is some additional padding on the long underside (when using the side handle) but no additional padding on the short underside (when using the top handle).
I can't say I've noticed. To be honest, I carry my case by the top handle most of the time as it is not particularly heavy even with a trumpet and cornet in it and I find it comfortable to carry this way. I also stand it at home on its end. It fits in my storage better that way, and all has been fine.
Rubber bottom studs might have contributed to lessen the impact of putting down the bag somewhat, but unfortunately on the JP851 they're metal.
Yes, they are metal, but this has never bothered me. I put it down carefully as I'm sure we all do, so I personally haven't found this to be a problem.
Other minor downsides are the backpack strap rings sticking out if no straps are attached (but they probably wouldn't catch onto things given they face the body when carried). A shoulder band would attach to the back of the case instead of the sides, which causes the corner of the case to dig into the body because it has to be carried at an angle.
As I asked above, did yours come with a shoulder strap? Mine didn't, and I wouldn't have thought that it would work well attaching one to rings that are designed for backpack straps, unless your case has additional rings. I would like an additional ring to carry my Protec mute bag. I believe that on my Protec single cases, it is the same one as for the shoulder strap.
Compared to the 301D, the JP851 is lighter, smaller (in both width and height)
This is interesting, and I didn't realise this. I've found that the JP851 is as tall when placed down on its side with the side handle up as my Xeno case is wide when placed at the same orientation, and as wide as my Xeno case is tall, so basically this is probably a narrower than average double case but which is slightly taller than average for a double case, hence being able to hold a short model cornet.
and has thinner padding.
I didn't realise this.
It's also slightly more expensive (+10 euros).
Overall the JP851 is a very good solution for players who prefer flexibility and want to carry as little 'case' as possible. It's protection is 'good enough', provided you do nothing weird with it.
Yes. I have a few things to add. I've had mine for quite a few years now. Although the top handle, which I've always used, is like new. The leatherette coating of the holder to keep the two side handles together, has completely come off, and I have a mostly white backing material handle holder. The leatherette of the top of the backpack straps padding is starting to peel off as well now. Neither of these affect the protection or use of the case, but it looks a bit scruffy compared to the rest of the case, which looks in really good condition, especially considering its use.
Because it is fairly narrow, the pocket at the top will not hold A4 sheet music. It does however hold a fair amount of accessories, but not mutes. And like I said, it doesn't come with a shoulder strap or any fitting for one (at least not my older one that looks identical but has a yellow logo), so also has not ring for carrying a mute bag, unless you want to attach one to the back pack rings, which would have to be taken off for you to put the case down to take your instruments out, and not allow you to use the backpack straps.
Also I would have preferred the style of back pack straps that you can unclip at the bottom and fold securely behind a zipped or velcroed cover when you don't want to use them. The backpack straps of this case are out all of the time, unless you taken them off. I remember having to work out initially how to even put them on as there were no instructions, so I never take them off, even though I rarely use them.
N.B. For myself, I have decided to return the case because I found the padding just a little too thin for my flugel, but for 2 trumpets I'm sure I could have DIYed a bit to remedy that. I also took some measurements for anyone interested, because listings tend to omit some (or all) of them.
Thanks very much, the measurements are really appreciated.
Take care and best wishes
Lou |
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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stuartissimo
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2021
Posts: 993
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2024 7:59 am Post subject: Re: JPro JP851 double trumpet case review |
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| Louise Finch wrote: | | It is also taller than a lot of double cases |
When I was in the store, they also had a Protec 301D so I could compare both cases directly. The Protec case interior is taller in height that the JP851 and it also had thicker padding (but like I said, it’s also bulkier).
| Louise Finch wrote: | | What is a shoulder band. a shoulder strap? If so, my older one didn't come with one, and I've checked my case, and there are no rings to attach one, just the four backpack strap rings on the back. Maybe there has been a change to this case, but I can't see it on the photos if so. |
The way I understood is is that supposedly you can use just 1 of the backpack straps for it. Admittedly, I haven’t tried it because I didn’t want to damage the case so I could still return it. Maybe you’re right and it isn’t supposed to be wearable across the shoulder, but if it were, the position of the rings on the side would make it less comfortable.
Regardless, I normally wear a backpack on my back and my instrument case using the should band/strap diagonally across the chest to keep my hands free. Hence a comfortable shoulder-carrying option is must-have for me.
Anyway, I appreciate you sharing your experiences with this case. It’s a decent case…just not the right one for my usecase.
_________________
1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2024 8:36 am Post subject: Re: JPro JP851 double trumpet case review |
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[quote="stuartissimo"] | Louise Finch wrote: | | It is also taller than a lot of double cases |
When I was in the store, they also had a Protec 301D so I could compare both cases directly. The Protec case interior is taller in height that the JP851 and it also had thicker padding (but like I said, it’s also bulkier).
Interesting, thanks. My JP851 is definitely taller than my Bach hard double case, old style hard Yamaha case and Xeno backpack style case, as none of these will hold a short model cornet.
| Louise Finch wrote: | | What is a shoulder band. a shoulder strap? If so, my older one didn't come with one, and I've checked my case, and there are no rings to attach one, just the four backpack strap rings on the back. Maybe there has been a change to this case, but I can't see it on the photos if so. |
The way I understood is is that supposedly you can use just 1 of the backpack straps for it. Admittedly, I haven’t tried it because I didn’t want to damage the case so I could still return it. Maybe you’re right and it isn’t supposed to be wearable across the shoulder, but if it were, the position of the rings on the side would make it less comfortable.
I see what you mean, and looking at the backpack straps they are possibly long enough, but this seems a bit of a bodge to me.
Regardless, I normally wear a backpack on my back
Yes, I do, hence rarely using the backpack straps of this case or any case.
and my instrument case using the should band/strap diagonally across the chest to keep my hands free. Hence a comfortable shoulder-carrying option is must-have for me.
Yes, I would use the shoulder strap too (and do so on my Protec pro-pac single trumpet (I have the slimline one with the vertical trumpet slot and no mute space) and cornet cases), but sadly this case doesn't really have one. Like I said, I carry it vertically using the top handle. Obviously this is not a handsfree option, but it has never bothered me.
Anyway, I appreciate you sharing your experiences with this case.
You are very welcome.
It’s a decent case…just not the right one for my usecase.
I fully understand this. We all have different case needs. I'm yet to find an absolutely ideal accessories storage solution. I use a heavy duty folding music stand that goes in a tall, thin stand bag with a carrying strap. I could carry it over my shoulder, but prefer to have it in an accessory bag, so it is not another thing to remember to pick up. My current best option is a fairly strong but unstructured canvas shopping style bag with long shoulder straps and an open top. I put my music folders in one slightly smaller one so that cardboard folders are less likely to end up tatty, inside a slightly larger one, in which I stand my music stand vertically one side so it sticks out of the top, with my music stand light next to it. I then put two K&M in the bell trumpet stands at the bottom, with my mutes on top. I carry small accessories, pencil case, music glasses etc. in the pocket on the top of my JP851 double case. I carry this bag over my right shoulder (the backpack on my back is my everyday bag), and carry my JP851 double case in my left hand by the top handle. It seems to work fine, and is the best option I've found so far. Obviously my mutes are not protected, and I've previously experimented with a Protec trumpet mute bag, but it is just more bulky, so I just put my mutes straight in my cloth bag.
All the best
Lou/quote]
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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stuartissimo
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2021
Posts: 993
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2024 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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Here's an embarassing twist of fate ...
After reading your comments I decided to give the case another try (I still have it at home, was gonna return it later this week). This time I actually tried it with both the flugel and a trumpet for the first time...and they don't fit  . I had only tried the flugel by itself so far, figuring the trumpet would obviously fit. But since the bell of the flugel is much wider than cornet/trumpet bells, it ends up pushing the divider to the side to the point that a trumpet no longer fits next to it.
Live and learn I suppose...
_________________
1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces |
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Brassnose
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 2057
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2024 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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I have been using the (old black and grey) Fusion triple trumpet bag for about ten years now. Got tired of always having to carry a thousand different bags while on the subway in a fairly large city.
It fits everything I need: trumpet (piston or rotary) + flugel (piston) + mutes + music + oils, mouthpieces, …, stand lamps, cap for sunny days, even the music stand (could fit our cats and the neighbors dog  ). Pretty sure it would take everything you need to fit BUT it is on the bulky side, of course.
I like it because I’ll have everything together and keep my hands free while traveling in packed suburban or subway trains or to bike to the gigs. Comfortable backpack straps, too. It’s the only bag I have.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2024 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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| stuartissimo wrote: | Here's an embarassing twist of fate ...
After reading your comments I decided to give the case another try (I still have it at home, was gonna return it later this week). This time I actually tried it with both the flugel and a trumpet for the first time...and they don't fit . I had only tried the flugel by itself so far, figuring the trumpet would obviously fit. But since the bell of the flugel is much wider than cornet/trumpet bells, it ends up pushing the divider to the side to the point that a trumpet no longer fits next to it.
Live and learn I suppose... |
At least you know that it is definitely lol not the case for you. I'm not surprised, as it is a fairly narrow case. It fits a short model cornet + trumpet fine.
I think that all cases are a compromise. Did I understand correctly that this Protec will hold your flugel and trumpet, but is a bit bulky:
https://www.thomann.de/gb/protec_ipac_301d_doppelkoffer.htm?glp=1&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAiP2tBhBXEiwACslfnlAOiv5nDad6wMWUqNbIw1bTjZd5ZaoxMMMlRy8G34Pf2tG5UARZPRoC1MUQAvD_BwE
Take care and best wishes
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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stuartissimo
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2021
Posts: 993
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 1:49 am Post subject: |
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| Brassnose wrote: | | I have been using the (old black and grey) Fusion triple trumpet bag for about ten years now. |
The rehersal is straight from work, so it would need to carry my work laptop as well. It might fit, but I fear the workplace wouldn't approve. Also, it's a soft bag right?
| Louise Finch wrote: | | Did I understand correctly that this Protec 301D will hold your flugel and trumpet |
Maybe...when I tried it at the store, I only tried the flugel by itself. I'd have to try when I go back to the store (not making that mistake again ).
Someone else suggested the Thomann Trekking Case in a PM as an alternative as well. I really appreciate that people from TH are willing to share their thoughts and help find a good solution. Thanks everyone!
_________________
1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces |
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Brassnose
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 2057
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 2:33 am Post subject: |
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I carry mine to and from work all the time and have no problem with that (but my employer doesn’t care). It is large-ish but fits under my office desk.
And yes, it is a soft bag but very robust — don’t take the „soft“ part too seriously. My laptop fits in fine; either in one of the inner compartments or in the outside music pocket. I *think* it’s a 13 inch, but I’ve had a larger one in there as well.
Only complaint I have is that there is no chest belt (is that the word?) with it - I’m relatively short and like to have additional stability of the backpack straps by holding them together. Makes it easier to carry the weight.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 6:05 am Post subject: |
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| stuartissimo wrote: | | Brassnose wrote: | | I have been using the (old black and grey) Fusion triple trumpet bag for about ten years now. |
The rehersal is straight from work, so it would need to carry my work laptop as well. It might fit, but I fear the workplace wouldn't approve. Also, it's a soft bag right?
| Louise Finch wrote: | | Did I understand correctly that this Protec 301D will hold your flugel and trumpet |
Maybe...when I tried it at the store, I only tried the flugel by itself. I'd have to try when I go back to the store (not making that mistake again ).
I fully understand, thanks. I would be interested to hear if both did fit, only of course if you do go back to the store to try it.
Someone else suggested the Thomann Trekking Case in a PM as an alternative as well. I really appreciate that people from TH are willing to share their thoughts and help find a good solution. Thanks everyone!
You are always very welcome.
This one says that it takes a smaller flugel and trumpet:
https://www.thomann.de/gb/thomann_lightcase_doppelkoffer_trptfl.htm
I haven't tried it myself.
Take care and best wishes
Lou |
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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stuartissimo
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2021
Posts: 993
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2024 12:34 am Post subject: |
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In case anyone is interested (pun intended):
I wound up buying a secondhand (recycling/environment ftw) Protec triple case. I saw the diagonal flugelhorn placement on their website photos and figured that would work for my oddly shaped flugel as well (it won’t fit upright, bell’s too big). Also took some inspiration from Gard’s ‘suspension technique’ and used the foam blocks to add some spacing between the case and the instruments. It works surprisingly well, there’s even enough room for 2 mutes (might be a good time to consider an S mute I suppose). The side pocket is large enough to hold my work laptop, or a music binder and stand, yet the case is still reasonably sized. Although generally I prefer using my backpack for ‘stuff’, I think this is a reasonable ‘carry all’ solution for me should I need to.
Thanks for all the suggestions, they were helpful and much appreciated.
_________________
1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces |
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