Well look at that, fluegels with tuning slides all over the place.
I guess what I was saying in regards to Scodwell fluegel, it is really nice to see a tuning slide on pro level and AFFORDABLE fluegel. I do wonder why none of the common mass produced (Bach, Yamaha, Jupiter, Carol, and older horns like Kanstul, Benge, etc.) offer the tuning slide on fluegels. _________________ Larry Woods
LDWoods
It's plastic, but it sounds pretty good (and the company calls it professional). _________________ "He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run"
Last edited by Halflip on Tue Apr 16, 2024 5:37 pm; edited 4 times in total
Joined: 12 Jun 2011 Posts: 3639 Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2024 5:02 pm Post subject:
Flugelhorns are funny animals, much more mouthpiece-sensitive than trumpets.
I wouldn't buy the Courtois listed in the OP's post without trying it. I play a Courtois 156 from the 80's, which is the best flugelhorn I've ever played, but, like all other brands, there are wide variations in intonation, tone, etc.
If Tony Scodwell is making a flugelhorn, you should try it. He knows a heck of a lot about what works. That's all that counts. _________________ "Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/
I wouldn't buy the Courtois listed in the OP's post without trying it.
+1
The Courtois mentioned in the OP's post is from the generation before your 156; it doesn't have the "direct air" valve block that yours has (among other things). My Noblet stencil of that horn does play pretty well, though, and it has a tone that can only be described as "luscious". _________________ "He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run"
Joined: 06 Feb 2002 Posts: 2349 Location: Santa Cruz County, CA
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2024 8:43 pm Post subject:
ldwoods wrote:
I guess what I was saying in regards to Scodwell fluegel, it is really nice to see a tuning slide on pro level and AFFORDABLE fluegel. I do wonder why none of the common mass produced (Bach, Yamaha, Jupiter, Carol, and older horns like Kanstul, Benge, etc.) offer the tuning slide on fluegels.
I can't find a Rick Braun flugel mouthpiece on the Marcinkiewicz web site, only a trumpet one. I think Rick used his trumpet mouthpiece on both instruments when only using Marcinkiewicz mouthpieces (he uses a Swiss Brand plastic one for trumpet these days). I might be wrong of course! _________________ 1975 Selmer Paris Radial 99 trumpet
Phil Parker London Series 1 flugel
Joined: 26 Jun 2017 Posts: 1551 Location: Virginia USA
Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 6:54 am Post subject:
I bought a used flugel, a Taylor Standard in raw brass. Price was good becouse someone had tried to brush it. I did not care. I am very happy with it. I had heard them and liked the sound, and I wanted to help the shop during the pandemic. Turned our well.
The mouthpiece journey was a bit interesting, from Bach (two tries) to an ACB (better) and finally biting the bullet and getting a Taylor mouthpiece. The horn works great with it, and all is settled flugel-wise.
If you like a brighter flugel, Yamaha is your bet as others have said. When I was trying flugels, I liked the old tried and true 631 better than the newer lighter ones. You can get one of them used fairly easily. _________________ Bb: Schilke X3L AS, Yamaha YTR-6335S
C: Schilke CXL, Kanstul 1510-2
Bb Cornet: Getzen 800 DLXS
Pic: Kanstul 920
Bb Bugle: Kanstul
Bb Pocket: Manchester Brass
Flugel: Taylor Std
Bass Tr: BAC Custom
Nat. Tr: Nikolai Mänttäri Morales Haas replica
I guess what I was saying in regards to Scodwell fluegel, it is really nice to see a tuning slide on pro level and AFFORDABLE fluegel. I do wonder why none of the common mass produced (Bach, Yamaha, Jupiter, Carol, and older horns like Kanstul, Benge, etc.) offer the tuning slide on fluegels.
The bell branch on a flugelhorn, the part that comes out of the valves and is joined to the bell, is critical to the horn's intonation. According to Byron Autrey, who is credited with solving the intonation problems of the flugelhorn when he and Zig Kanstul were working on the 1525 and 925 models, the taper geometry is extremely sensitive and can either make or break the instrument's intonation with a variance of 5/8" or less from optimum cut location along its taper.
Adding a sliding aspect to its design is, as Tony has testified on these boards, difficult and very critical to get right in order for the horn to maintain its intonation. Most designers simply use the tuning bit at the front of the horn to adjust tuning and hold the mouthpiece. _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.
_________________ -fred
Lots of horns available to try and buy (or just try) in the Florida Treasure Coast area (Especially Kanstul trumpets) - PM if you'd like to stop by.
Joined: 06 Feb 2002 Posts: 2349 Location: Santa Cruz County, CA
Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 9:55 pm Post subject:
ohiotpt wrote:
While we're on the subject. Has anyone been looking at this interesting critter?
The late George Graham played a flugelhorn modified in that way, with the bell rotated to the left side of the valves and a short piece of leadpipe mounted on the right to hold the pinky ring and give your right thumb something to do. I believe Mark Curry modified his B&S flugel in the same way after encountering Graham's. _________________ J. Notso Nieuwguyski
Joined: 12 Jun 2011 Posts: 3639 Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2024 6:35 pm Post subject:
shofarguy wrote:
ldwoods wrote:
I guess what I was saying in regards to Scodwell fluegel, it is really nice to see a tuning slide on pro level and AFFORDABLE fluegel. I do wonder why none of the common mass produced (Bach, Yamaha, Jupiter, Carol, and older horns like Kanstul, Benge, etc.) offer the tuning slide on fluegels.
The bell branch on a flugelhorn, the part that comes out of the valves and is joined to the bell, is critical to the horn's intonation. According to Byron Autrey, who is credited with solving the intonation problems of the flugelhorn when he and Zig Kanstul were working on the 1525 and 925 models, the taper geometry is extremely sensitive and can either make or break the instrument's intonation with a variance of 5/8" or less from optimum cut location along its taper.
Adding a sliding aspect to its design is, as Tony has testified on these boards, difficult and very critical to get right in order for the horn to maintain its intonation. Most designers simply use the tuning bit at the front of the horn to adjust tuning and hold the mouthpiece.
And all of this information means that you have to try the horn before buying it. There is an "X" factor as well as measurable differences; some horns play better than others and there are no measurable differences. I've played hundreds, probably a thousand flugelhorns over my career, and you need to be selective if you consider it a serious instrument. _________________ "Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/
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