Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2024 6:17 am Post subject: Advantage of adjustable cup mutes?
I just purchased an adjustable cup Denis Wick cup mute because my old standby stonelined one (yup, one of those) is finally so chipped up that it doesn't really work. I bought the Denis Wick one because a number of people in my trumpet section use them and I like the sound, and that way we're all consistent with each other. Not sure if that's the best reason to buy that one, but consistency of sound is important.
I haven't seen anyone adjust the cup while playing though, so my question is, what's the real value of an adjustable cup mute? I suspect it's so that on certain passages you can adjust the cup closer to the bell to change the tone without having to remove the mute and put in a different one where the cup fits tighter/looser to the bell, but that's just a guess. _________________ Richard H
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Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2024 8:20 am Post subject:
When adjusted down far enough, it can also be used as a makeshift practice mute. I use mine for warming up before band rehearsal when I forget my practice mute. _________________ Best Regards,
Greg
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Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2024 8:33 am Post subject: Re: Advantage of adjustable cup mutes?
rhatheway wrote:
I haven't seen anyone adjust the cup while playing though, so my question is, what's the real value of an adjustable cup mute?
Trumpet bells are not all the same size, and there is some variance in the thickness of the cork of the cup mute, so a mute will insert different depths depending on the trumpet and condition of the cork on the mute. The adjustable cup lets you set the distance from the cup to the bell flare to fine-tune the sound and response of the mute. If you have a section playing a bunch of different makes/models of trumpet, you can achieve a uniform muted sound by adjusting the cup. If you're playing as a soloist, you can adjust the mute for optimum response and volume. I've never seen someone adjust the mute while playing, but it allows you to set the cup where you want it to before you start playing.
Joined: 22 Oct 2021 Posts: 229 Location: California
Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2024 8:37 am Post subject:
I really like the Humes & Berg cup mute I got a couple weeks ago. For the cost it’s also a huge bargain, plus the dang thing is cute!
With that Denis Wick you can remove the cup and use it as a pretty good straight mute. Different distances of the cup to the bell apparently changes sound slightly.
When adjusted down far enough, it can also be used as a makeshift practice mute. I use mine for warming up before band rehearsal when I forget my practice mute.
That's a great idea. Thanks for the suggestion! _________________ Richard H
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Working on getting my chops back...
“Without music, life would be a mistake” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
1968 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1958 Conn Director 14A
Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2024 10:43 am Post subject: Re: Advantage of adjustable cup mutes?
Goby wrote:
Trumpet bells are not all the same size, and there is some variance in the thickness of the cork of the cup mute, so a mute will insert different depths depending on the trumpet and condition of the cork on the mute. The adjustable cup lets you set the distance from the cup to the bell flare to fine-tune the sound and response of the mute. If you have a section playing a bunch of different makes/models of trumpet, you can achieve a uniform muted sound by adjusting the cup. If you're playing as a soloist, you can adjust the mute for optimum response and volume. I've never seen someone adjust the mute while playing, but it allows you to set the cup where you want it to before you start playing.
That makes perfect sense, thanks for the explanation. _________________ Richard H
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Working on getting my chops back...
“Without music, life would be a mistake” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
1968 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1958 Conn Director 14A
With that Denis Wick you can remove the cup and use it as a pretty good straight mute. Different distances of the cup to the bell apparently changes sound slightly.
A two-fer, huh? I should have thought of that before I also bought the DW straight mute! Oh well... _________________ Richard H
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Working on getting my chops back...
“Without music, life would be a mistake” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
1968 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1958 Conn Director 14A
Joined: 06 Feb 2002 Posts: 2349 Location: Santa Cruz County, CA
Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2024 1:33 pm Post subject:
In big band music and even moreso in musical pit orchestras you encounter the marking "tight cup," which means push the cup mute in farther so the cup is closer to the bell. An adjustable cup mute makes this easier. _________________ J. Notso Nieuwguyski
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Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2024 1:49 pm Post subject:
I have numerous friends who use those cup mutes, but I’ve resisted buying one because I don’t like the sound they produce. To me, the old red and white Humes&Berg cup mutes sound the best. I’ve also played with people who use the inner part of the Wick cup mute for a straight mute, and the standard metal Wick straight mute sounds much better to my ears. End of rant…lol _________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham
In big band music and even moreso in musical pit orchestras you encounter the marking "tight cup," which means push the cup mute in farther so the cup is closer to the bell. An adjustable cup mute makes this easier.
Interesting. It's been so long since I've played any big band music that I didn't remember that. Thanks for that tip, now if I see it on a chart I'll know what it means! _________________ Richard H
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Working on getting my chops back...
“Without music, life would be a mistake” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
1968 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1958 Conn Director 14A
I have numerous friends who use those cup mutes, but I’ve resisted buying one because I don’t like the sound they produce. To me, the old red and white Humes&Berg cup mutes sound the best. I’ve also played with people who use the inner part of the Wick cup mute for a straight mute, and the standard metal Wick straight mute sounds much better to my ears. End of rant…lol
Well..., that makes me feel better about buying both mutes separately, instead of using one for both purposes! _________________ Richard H
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Working on getting my chops back...
“Without music, life would be a mistake” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
1968 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1958 Conn Director 14A
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8916 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2024 7:45 am Post subject:
I most prefer the H&B sound but only when the corks are shaved to get a nice tight fit. Most folks don't shave the corks and leave the cup too far from the bell which to my ears is not the ideal cup sound. If I need a louder more open sound I just pull it out a bit and hold it. I suppose you could do that easier with an adjustable cup but again that's not generally my preferred sound. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2024 7:47 am Post subject:
rhatheway wrote:
Rhondo wrote:
With that Denis Wick you can remove the cup and use it as a pretty good straight mute. Different distances of the cup to the bell apparently changes sound slightly.
A two-fer, huh? I should have thought of that before I also bought the DW straight mute! Oh well...
NOT a fan of using a cup body, without the cup, for a straight mute. Barely acceptable in a pinch.. There are some mutes designed to be a straight or cup, better, but not ideal for either (cup or straight)
AND cup distance from the bell has quite a large impact on tone. One may still have to adjust the cork (sand/file them) to get the optimal tone. Take the cup off and with the body in the trumpet can you play down to a low G, F#? If you can't the corks are too thick. (just like an unadjustable cup mute)
Josh Rzepka has some wonderful YouTube videos on this topic. _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
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Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2024 7:55 am Post subject:
The main advantage is being able to easily match across the section while varying the tightness of the cup. I know a lot of people prefer the sound of the Humes and Berg but it’s not possible to adjust the depth, and if everyone’s isn’t inserted the same distance the sounds can vary quite a bit.
And agreed that the Wick cup should really only be used as a straight mute in the most dire emergency; I’ve never used it myself but I have given it to a section member who forgot their straight mute when there was no other option. _________________ Andrew Stadler
There are a few potential advantages. First, you may be able to get a fairly significant change in sound from a tight cup to an open cup. I say "may," because different cup designs, corks, and bell flares can limit the amount of actual adjustability the mute has.
Second, if you have horns with different bell flares, you may be able to adjust the cup mute enough to keep it in tune even though the corks are not properly filed for each horn.
There can also be disadvantages. Depending on the design of the mute, it may be harder to execute a quick mute change with an adjustable mute as opposed to a fixed mute, it may be too unwieldy to adjust quickly, etc.
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