Descending Intervals Problem

[BarryWilson]

Let me see if I can describe my problem clearly. I'm thinking specifically about the notes at the top of the staff beginning with 1st ledger line "A" and descending down to about 4th line "D". I don't have any trouble ascending through those notes diatonically, chromatically, or larger intervals. But for a long time I've been having trouble descending. I was just now reading the Sigmund Hering Etude #4. On line 6, m 1 I could not play the descending A to F# to D# then the G/E/C. It got better when I slowed it down and made each note a quarter note at about 60 but it still ain't great. Descending interals in that range strike fear into my heart when I see it in literature. Any thoughts?
_________________
Barry Wilson
Hodges, SC
Yamaha YTR 8310ZII Bobby Shew Custom
Yamaha YTR 8335 Gen I Xeno (Back up horn)
Yamaha Bobby Shew Flugel
Leblanc Paris C

[abontrumpet]

There's so much nuance and precision that is required when describing sound that would be cleared up with a recording. I'll try and ask the questions required to properly respond:

1. Is the range you mention a VERY comfortable range for you
2. What exactly is the trouble in descending? Do you miss the note completely, do you go too far down, do you have an odd sound? What is the trouble?
3. What happens when you slow it down to half notes at 60?
4. Can you sing those intervals with extreme precision?
5. Have you recorded yourself?

There's more, but let's start there.

[MrOlds]

Hard to say what is causing the problem without seeing and hearing you play. But playing/chop issues often stem from inconsistent air flow. Here’s a clip of Allen Vizzutti with some interesting thoughts:

https://youtu.be/6_OXw9o95aY?si=BPnPjKsfcABqK4YQ

Might not resolve this problem but useful info to think about.

[JayKosta]

It's typical to practice going higher, so more skill is developed learning how to make the adjustments in that direction. When going lower, it is necessary to learn how to control the 'relaxation' adjustments.

Going slowly and precisely is important, and developing the habit of making the adjustments to land on the desired note. For me, it's imaging the pitch and the 'feel' needed for the notes
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

[abontrumpet]

[Trumpjerele]

It is easier to climb a tree than to take it down.

It happens to me too.

I can think of some logical exercises:

- Practice it an octave lower.
- Loop up and down the arpeggio.
-Play the descending arpeggio with chromatic passing notes, faster and faster, keeping a long tone on the target note.

I guess you already practice this kind of exercises.

One last thing, play without fear, your body already knows how to play those notes, it just needs to learn the way to play them in that descending order.
_________________
Notice!!! Amateur musician without formal studies

Trumpet: Yamaha 8310Z
Mouthpiece: the great Yamaha11b4

Sax tenor: Yamaha YTS 23
Mouthpiece: Otto link tone edge

[JayKosta]

[abontrumpet]

[Rhondo]

Am I correct in saying that if you have to think about it you haven’t mastered it?

Or, you’re thinking, but similarly to the degree you think about how to walk while walking?

[JayKosta]

[BarryWilson]

[quote="abontrumpet"]There's so much nuance and precision that is required when describing sound that would be cleared up with a recording. I'll try and ask the questions required to properly respond:

1. Is the range you mention a VERY comfortable range for you
Well, not "very" comfortable. I'm a 68 yr old amateur and play mostly 2nd and 3rd parts.
2. What exactly is the trouble in descending? Do you miss the note completely, do you go too far down, do you have an odd sound? What is the trouble?
In this example, when I come off the "A", instead of hitting the "F#" I land on the "D#". This happens in other examples in the same register.
3. What happens when you slow it down to half notes at 60?
It gets better...just not great. I played it slowly several times this morning and came back to it late in the afternoon. It was better.
4. Can you sing those intervals with extreme precision?
On lower pitches, yes.
5. Have you recorded yourself?
Not doing this.
[/i]
_________________
Barry Wilson
Hodges, SC
Yamaha YTR 8310ZII Bobby Shew Custom
Yamaha YTR 8335 Gen I Xeno (Back up horn)
Yamaha Bobby Shew Flugel
Leblanc Paris C

[BarryWilson]

[mograph]

Yeah, you might be dumping the air. or relaxing the embouchure too much.

Try ...
- keeping what you think is the same air and embouchure, just relax a teeny tiny bit
- playing A G#, A G , A F#, A F , A E, A D#, A D
- add it in threes: A G# G, A G# F#, A G F, A F# D#, A F# D or something like that.
- do it slowly and only speed up incrementally when it sounds and feels good.
- try to keep a more consistent embouchure throughout. The notes might be closer together than you think.[/list]
_________________
1985 Bach 37
1980 King 601 (it's bulletproof!)
1978 Couesnon flugelhorn
Playing for fun since 1979.
Fmr member 48th Highlanders of Canada Mil Band
Into that jazz devil music

[Destructo]

Descending is harder than ascending.

Keep the Mouthpiece with the lower jaw, so that you can feel your lower teeth. Practice tonguing the interval then immediately slurring it. Stay with the lower teeth. Notice how you likely stay with the teeth when tonguing and pull away when slurring.

It's easy to lift off and away from the lower teeth when descending which means the jaw and the embouchure are no longer working together and all sorts of lip manipulation starts to happen, along with exaggerated pivoting.

The Reinhardt folks have two great exercises called the "pivot stabilizer" and the "track routine". Both would help a lot with this.

One other thing that can help as well is to play the A, allow your cheeks to puff, then slur down with the puffed cheeks. This seems to force you to stay with the teeth. Obviously this is an exercise only. Once you get the feel, go back to playing it normally.

Hope that helps!

[abontrumpet]

[mograph]

[abontrumpet]

[BarryWilson]

Thank you all so much for taking time to work on this with me. I got several ideas that I'm going to work on. You guys are great!
_________________
Barry Wilson
Hodges, SC
Yamaha YTR 8310ZII Bobby Shew Custom
Yamaha YTR 8335 Gen I Xeno (Back up horn)
Yamaha Bobby Shew Flugel
Leblanc Paris C

[mograph]

[Destructo]