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Dale Proctor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9382 Location: Heart of Dixie
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Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2024 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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I didn’t see any critique of Allen valves in your link other than the comment that their small diameter allows them to have faster action, which is true. I played this cornet in a Civil War reenactment brass band for around 25 years and noticed no significant stuffiness. On the contrary, it’s one of the better playing cornets from that era that I’ve played, on par with contemporary Boston instruments. Interesting reading, though…thanks! _________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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etc-etc Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 6200
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Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2024 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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Dale Proctor wrote: |
I didn’t see any critique of Allen valves in your link other than the comment that their small diameter allows them to have faster action, which is true. I played this cornet in a Civil War reenactment brass band for around 25 years and noticed no significant stuffiness. On the contrary, it’s one of the better playing cornets from that era that I’ve played, on par with contemporary Boston instruments. Interesting reading, though…thanks! |
Dale,
Indeed the reference above does not say anything about stuffiness of Allen valves - that it is a possibility is entirely my conjecture.
I looked up Allen valves in context of other instruments and found this information from TubeNet, posted in 2004:
Quote: | Thu May 13, 2004 9:39 pm
Chuck,
In the late 1800's horns were made with Allen valves, which were a rotary version of ovalized valves. I have seen these on Hall & Quinby, and Allen & Hall over the shoulder tubas, as well as a Lehnert centennial model tuba.
On the tubas I have played, they were far more ovalized than on the piston ovalized valve structures. While visually this gives the impression that they would induce resistance and stuffiness to the horns, all three such horns I have played have been exceptionally nice blowing horns.
It gives a very small diameter valve, perhaps a 5/8" diameter rotor for a fairly small bore over the shoulder E-flat tuba.
I'm pretty certain these are the subject of an early U.S. patent. When I locate it, I'll post a scan.
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This confirms your observation that rotary Allen valves, using a "depressed circle" cross-section, can be superior in performance to other models. |
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stuartissimo Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2021 Posts: 1011 Location: Europe
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Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2024 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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etc-etc wrote: | the shepherd crook is not contributing much to the sound. Unless, of course, you listen with your eyes |
Sometimes that makes all the difference though. The senses and the mind are strongly connected. There have been studies that indicate people even taste with their eyes. So even if it's purely mental it still contributes to the sound. _________________ 1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces |
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Dale Proctor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9382 Location: Heart of Dixie
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Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2024 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the additional info - nice research! The Allen valves on the Lehnert cornet are pretty tiny. I also had occasion to play a Henry Lehnert Eb cornet with the same valves, and it was a very good instrument, too.
_________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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DAVIDTHEWRITER Regular Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2024 Posts: 38 Location: SoCal, USA
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Posted: Sat May 18, 2024 5:23 am Post subject: |
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I have convinced myself that I need a shepherd crook cornet. I want that final degree of mellow and dark and brown from my cornet. I'm actively seeking an irresistible deal on any color Jupiter 520 cornet in really great shape. The virtually identical 700 model has replaced the 520. Some day I will have money to own both and I will investigate if there is more than one molecule of difference. I keep reading that the Yamaha shepherds crook cornet models cannot hold a candle to the Jupiter 520 sound. _________________ Ode to Joy is my earworm. It's a blessing and a curse. |
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DAVIDTHEWRITER Regular Member
Joined: 23 Apr 2024 Posts: 38 Location: SoCal, USA
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Posted: Sat May 18, 2024 5:43 am Post subject: |
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Man Of Constant Sorrow wrote: | "Don't believe everything you read on the Internet".
(ever hear this before ?) |
I've read that Jupiter S C cornets sound better than the equivalent Yamaha S C cornets. And appears to me there are five or more times the volume of used Yamaha S C cornets on the market. The Jupiter S C cornets appear much less frequently than the Yamaha S C cornets, which is interesting. _________________ Ode to Joy is my earworm. It's a blessing and a curse. |
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