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cbtj51 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2015 Posts: 737 Location: SE US
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Posted: Thu May 02, 2024 6:48 am Post subject: |
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rhatheway wrote: | cbtj51 wrote: | Almost 10 years later, a free right hand approach has become second nature and really works well. I tend to play lighter and have gained more control over my left hand grip in the process.
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By "more control over my left hand grip" do you mean a more stable platform based on your left hand vs. helping support the horn by using the little finger of the right hand along with the left hand? |
In short, yes! I have adopted a more stable way of solid left hand holding that does not inhibit my 3rd or 1st slide action; A 2up/2down "Spock" hold (2 fingers above, 2 fingers below 3rd slide). The horn is supported and stabilized with left hand index finger gripping just below bell on the 3rd valve upper area and ring and pinky finger firmly wrapped around the lower portion of the 3rd valve just below and supporting the 3rd slide. I use my middle finger for slide action very easily. The use of the "Gapper" device on all of my horns with a 3rd slide fixed ring gives me firm contact with the 3rd slide ring and ease of necessary travel.
When turning pages or using mutes my right hand pinky finger go into pinky hook as long as necessary.
Life is Short, find the Joy in it!
Mike _________________ '71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces |
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Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2617
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Posted: Thu May 02, 2024 7:38 am Post subject: |
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rhatheway wrote: | Robert P wrote: | rhatheway wrote: | But going back to my original question, is there really an advantage to not using the ring or is it just personal preference? |
Go to about 48 secs in and beyond - on the closeup shots you'll see Doc at various points with his pinky on the leadpipe behind the hook, inside the hook, on top of the hook, waving around in the air. You'll see the same thing on any of his videos.
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Well, if Doc does it like that, then I guess it means that just about anything goes! |
Also re: your question about finger position notice that he also switches from curved to flat at various points.
On the last note he even holds down the 1st valve with his left thumb as he directs the band which he often did. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
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rhatheway Veteran Member
Joined: 02 Apr 2024 Posts: 230 Location: Texas
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Posted: Thu May 02, 2024 10:37 am Post subject: |
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cbtj51 wrote: | rhatheway wrote: | cbtj51 wrote: | Almost 10 years later, a free right hand approach has become second nature and really works well. I tend to play lighter and have gained more control over my left hand grip in the process.
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By "more control over my left hand grip" do you mean a more stable platform based on your left hand vs. helping support the horn by using the little finger of the right hand along with the left hand? |
In short, yes! I have adopted a more stable way of solid left hand holding that does not inhibit my 3rd or 1st slide action; A 2up/2down "Spock" hold (2 fingers above, 2 fingers below 3rd slide). The horn is supported and stabilized with left hand index finger gripping just below bell on the 3rd valve upper area and ring and pinky finger firmly wrapped around the lower portion of the 3rd valve just below and supporting the 3rd slide. I use my middle finger for slide action very easily. The use of the "Gapper" device on all of my horns with a 3rd slide fixed ring gives me firm contact with the 3rd slide ring and ease of necessary travel.
When turning pages or using mutes my right hand pinky finger go into pinky hook as long as necessary.
Life is Short, find the Joy in it!
Mike |
OK, I believe I understand how you're positioning your left hand, but what is a "Gapper device"? _________________ Richard H
------------------------------------------
Working on getting my chops back...
“Without music, life would be a mistake” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
1958 Conn Director 14A
1968 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1977 Reynolds Medalist CR-58 |
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cbtj51 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2015 Posts: 737 Location: SE US
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Posted: Thu May 02, 2024 10:45 am Post subject: |
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rhatheway wrote: | OK, I believe I understand how you're positioning your left hand, but what is a "Gapper device"? |
The Gapper
https://osmun.com/gapper-gapr/
Life is Short, find the Joy in it!
Mike _________________ '71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces |
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Dale Proctor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9383 Location: Heart of Dixie
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Posted: Thu May 02, 2024 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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cbtj51 wrote: | rhatheway wrote: | OK, I believe I understand how you're positioning your left hand, but what is a "Gapper device"? |
The Gapper
https://osmun.com/gapper-gapr/
Life is Short, find the Joy in it!
Mike |
I wonder how you pick the right size, since there are so many choices? _________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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Shifty Veteran Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2013 Posts: 256 Location: Phoenix AZ
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Posted: Thu May 02, 2024 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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Dale Proctor wrote: | cbtj51 wrote: | rhatheway wrote: | OK, I believe I understand how you're positioning your left hand, but what is a "Gapper device"? |
The Gapper
https://osmun.com/gapper-gapr/
Life is Short, find the Joy in it!
Mike |
I wonder how you pick the right size, since there are so many choices? |
You guess. That should get you close.
If you order directly from the inventor he offers a size guarantee. That may apply at the retailers too, but not sure.
RETURN & REFUND POLICY
Our goal is 100% customer satisfaction! Every Gapper® is checked before mailed to a customer. However, should something get damaged during the shipping process, contact us and we will replace your Gapper®.
We also offer a size guarantee. If the Gapper® you purchased is the wrong size, let us know by emailing info@trumpetgapper.com.
His price is $4 more than at Osmun, but it includes shipping.
https://www.trumpetgapper.com/shop _________________ Getzen Eterna 700, Eterna 800
Conn Connstellation 28A, Victor 80A, Connqueror (1903)
ACB Doubler Flugelhorn |
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rhatheway Veteran Member
Joined: 02 Apr 2024 Posts: 230 Location: Texas
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Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 6:15 am Post subject: |
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Other than cbtj51, has anyone else used this Gapper device and does it really make a difference? Theoretically I can see how the idea of taking up some of the space in the finger loop would give you a tighter fit for your finger, allowing you more fine tuning control when actually kicking out the slide with your finger to adjust intonation, but is that really an issue for most players? Maybe for professionals in a recording situation, sure, but for the rest of us? When I use the third valve tuning slide, my finger already presses up against the far side of the loop, so I don't see that this is an issue (at least for me, but then again, I'm not a professional).
Seems to me like I could do basically the same thing with a piece of tape around the finger loop, which would also be easier to adjust exactly to my requirements, if I decided I really needed that tight a fit for my finger.
Is this really a solution to a real problem, or just a gimmick? _________________ Richard H
------------------------------------------
Working on getting my chops back...
“Without music, life would be a mistake” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
1958 Conn Director 14A
1968 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1977 Reynolds Medalist CR-58 |
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Croquethed Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2013 Posts: 621 Location: Oakville, CT
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Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 7:37 am Post subject: |
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Re the Gapper
I use one on an X-13 with a third valve slide that is a little out of alignment..might have been damaged in shipping. Not enough to truly bother me, but the extra leverage helps. And my hands are smaller than average, so that may play a role. I prefer that to tape because it pops in and out of place easily, no cosmetic distractions.
All my other horns are slick as snot and no need for the extra leverage. |
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Shifty Veteran Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2013 Posts: 256 Location: Phoenix AZ
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Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 8:28 am Post subject: |
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rhatheway wrote: | Other than cbtj51, has anyone else used this Gapper device and does it really make a difference? Theoretically I can see how the idea of taking up some of the space in the finger loop would give you a tighter fit for your finger, allowing you more fine tuning control when actually kicking out the slide with your finger to adjust intonation, but is that really an issue for most players? Maybe for professionals in a recording situation, sure, but for the rest of us? When I use the third valve tuning slide, my finger already presses up against the far side of the loop, so I don't see that this is an issue (at least for me, but then again, I'm not a professional).
Seems to me like I could do basically the same thing with a piece of tape around the finger loop, which would also be easier to adjust exactly to my requirements, if I decided I really needed that tight a fit for my finger.
Is this really a solution to a real problem, or just a gimmick? |
Not a gimmick. I have them on the third valve slide of three horns and the first valve slide of two. Some people would use them simply because their hands are small.
I've got Dupuytren's contracture of my left pinky finger and my ring finger is so tied to my middle finger that I can't use it without wobbling the entire horn. So the Gapper helps me get more extension with the pinky.
As well, I've got arthritis in my thumbs. Without the Gapper i can't even reach the far side of the thumb hooks. _________________ Getzen Eterna 700, Eterna 800
Conn Connstellation 28A, Victor 80A, Connqueror (1903)
ACB Doubler Flugelhorn |
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cbtj51 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2015 Posts: 737 Location: SE US
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Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 10:02 am Post subject: |
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Shifty wrote: | Not a gimmick. I have them on the third valve slide of three horns and the first valve slide of two. Some people would use them simply because their hands are small.
I've got Dupuytren's contracture of my left pinky finger and my ring finger is so tied to my middle finger that I can't use it without wobbling the entire horn. So the Gapper helps me get more extension with the pinky.
As well, I've got arthritis in my thumbs. Without the Gapper i can't even reach the far side of the thumb hooks. |
As noted by Shifty, not a gimmick, but maybe viewed as a solution to a nonexistent problem for some as are so many other "accesories" available for trumpet. I am also a believer that If it ain't broke... This is not the case for me in this instance. My left hand ring finger (the one that I previously manipulated my 3rd slide with) has limited movement resulting from an auto accident. Changing my left grip to manuever my middle finger into position for that job made my smallish hands and middle finger not contact the far side of the ring solidly as well as requiring active participation from my right hand for horn support. The Gapper (I chose the ML Gapper) gives me the ability to move my 3rd slide to the furthest limits with just the tip of my middle finger.
I ordered my first Gapper in 2019 from Trumpetgapper.com (much information and sizing available there). The Gapper is very fast and easy to install or remove for use on another horn taking just a few seconds, but I have chosen to have a Gapper on all of my horns with a 3rd fixed ring. As stated in an earlier post, my current left hand grip also frees my right hand from active horn support and the Gapper assists greatly in that. In fact, I really applaud the Gapper!
Life is Short, find the Joy in it! _________________ '71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces |
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rhatheway Veteran Member
Joined: 02 Apr 2024 Posts: 230 Location: Texas
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Posted: Fri May 03, 2024 11:22 am Post subject: |
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Got it! Thanks for the clarification.
As I've mentioned, I've only come back to my horn in the last year and so many things have changed, and there are so many new things to learn about, that it is amazing. This is another example of something I had never known or heard about, so thanks all for bringing that to my attention. I don't need one right now, but who knows what may change in the future, so it's good to know about.
I suspect that even if something like this was available back in the day, it would have had a limited market back in the pre-Internet days. _________________ Richard H
------------------------------------------
Working on getting my chops back...
“Without music, life would be a mistake” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
1958 Conn Director 14A
1968 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1977 Reynolds Medalist CR-58 |
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Shaft Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Sep 2006 Posts: 995
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Andy Cooper Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1865 Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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Posted: Sat May 11, 2024 9:19 am Post subject: |
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I was taught to use the little finger hook only for page turns. The rest of the time the little finger is "glued" to my third finger to give a little more strength and speed.
My teacher actually taped my fingers together.
(For me it's faster but then I have arthritis which makes it more difficult to move the third finger in isolation. About twice as fast with the little finger moving with the third.)
I spent a dozen years as a church musician playing from choral music - the constant page turning required me to pretty much play one handed most of the time. To make it easier, I had all of my little finger hooks replaced with rings. Fingering speed was seldom an issue so it worked out. |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2458
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Posted: Sat May 11, 2024 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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I spent most of my life as a 4-in-line player, so for my finger to be constrained does not feel right. I rarely use the hook/ring, unless other logistics, such as slide throws, require it. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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Bill_Bumps Veteran Member
Joined: 07 May 2019 Posts: 160
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Posted: Sun May 12, 2024 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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huntman10 wrote: | I find the hook provides a stable position to insure my fingers are in the right place.... |
Same here. I don't put any actual pressure on the hook, I just use it as a reference point for my other fingers. |
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