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Christian1483 Regular Member
Joined: 04 Sep 2023 Posts: 16
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Posted: Wed May 08, 2024 7:28 pm Post subject: Squeezing cheeks when playing high? |
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So I've only been playing for like 4 years and have been having tons of range troubles, and recently got a teacher to hopefully fix said range troubles. Earlier today I was watching some videos and heard someone say something about feeling it in your cheeks and not your lips, and was wondering exactly what that meant. Does anyone know if its good to actually feeling squeezing in your cheeks, or what else are you supposed to do when playing high? |
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Doug Elliott Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Oct 2006 Posts: 1191 Location: Silver Spring, MD
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Posted: Wed May 08, 2024 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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Absolutely not.
Except your butt cheeks, maybe you misunderstood.
But there's so much more to fixing range issues...
I do Skype lessons for exactly that, if you're interested. |
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Christian1483 Regular Member
Joined: 04 Sep 2023 Posts: 16
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Posted: Wed May 08, 2024 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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Doug Elliott wrote: | Absolutely not.
Except your butt cheeks, maybe you misunderstood.
But there's so much more to fixing range issues...
I do Skype lessons for exactly that, if you're interested. |
Oh ok, I didn't actually play around with it while playing to know if it actually works or not, so that's good. What general things should you do when playing high? I know everyone is very different, but I just want to know some general things that work for a lot of people, since I have a generally average embouchure so average things might work. |
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Doug Elliott Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Oct 2006 Posts: 1191 Location: Silver Spring, MD
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Posted: Wed May 08, 2024 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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I diagnose and teach individual players what THEY need to do to play efficiently. Sure, there are general principles that apply to everybody, but pretty much everything depends on what you are currently doing and where to go from there. You're having problems, and there's no point in guessing randomly what you need to do to fix it. "Average embouchure" doesn't tell me anything useful. You can spend decades trying average things that might work. |
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Christian1483 Regular Member
Joined: 04 Sep 2023 Posts: 16
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Posted: Wed May 08, 2024 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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Doug Elliott wrote: | I diagnose and teach individual players what THEY need to do to play efficiently. Sure, there are general principles that apply to everybody, but pretty much everything depends on what you are currently doing and where to go from there. You're having problems, and there's no point in guessing randomly what you need to do to fix it. "Average embouchure" doesn't tell me anything useful. You can spend decades trying average things that might work. |
Alright. I don't want to switch teachers just yet since I've only had one lesson so far with my current teacher, so I want to see if things settle out after a bit, and if they don't then I'll consider switching. Do you think you could tell me anything from pictures of my embouchure? I know its hard to diagnose without seeing actual playing, but is there anything that could be told from pictures? |
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Doug Elliott Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Oct 2006 Posts: 1191 Location: Silver Spring, MD
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Posted: Thu May 09, 2024 3:42 am Post subject: |
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You should have a steady teacher, and that's not what I do.
In one lesson I can put you on the right path of how to play and how to practice for your particular issues. Playing does not need to be hard. |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3367 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Thu May 09, 2024 5:17 am Post subject: |
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For general info about embouchure, I've written an article that discusses the main points of 'what needs to be happening' - it's not really about 'how to do it' but gives an overview of what gets discussed regarding embouchure.
http://users.hancock.net/jkosta/Embouchure_Basic_Concepts.htm
Regarding 'cheeks' - remember that the important issue is what happens to the lips - if someone has good sensory feel of their cheeks and that helps them control their lips, then great. This might be similar to 'tongue position'.
A good 'embouchure teacher' should be able to quickly identify and really teach the specifics for YOUR situation. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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Christian1483 Regular Member
Joined: 04 Sep 2023 Posts: 16
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Posted: Thu May 09, 2024 10:06 am Post subject: |
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Doug Elliott wrote: | You should have a steady teacher, and that's not what I do.
In one lesson I can put you on the right path of how to play and how to practice for your particular issues. Playing does not need to be hard. |
Oh ok. I'll talk with my parents and see if we can work something out. I'll get back to you if I can work something out. |
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Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2619
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Posted: Sat May 11, 2024 10:59 am Post subject: |
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"Feel it in your cheeks" is vague. I suppose someone might perceive it that way but there are numerous ways to apply muscular tension in regard to your facial muscles - I regard making an overt effort to specifically squeeze/tighten your cheeks as counterproductive.
Another one you'll probably hear at some point is people taking about "keeping tight corners" - same thing, there's an infinite number of ways the corners can be tight, most of which aren't conducive to playing. When I tried focusing on "corners" it was nothing but counterproductive, it locked me up. I personally think of an overall tension not any one specific place. You need to get familiar with what it feels like to play specific notes at different volume levels, experiment with what works for you and internalize it. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel
Last edited by Robert P on Sun May 12, 2024 11:07 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2671 Location: Anacortes, WA
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Posted: Sat May 11, 2024 11:53 am Post subject: |
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My cheeks get tired and I can feel the contraction there. I think it is part of using a longer aperture tunnel and contracting behind the lips to keep the vibrating surface relaxed. Embouchure styles do vary as do approaches. I've found it difficult to explain the feeling to others who think everything happens at the point of contact with the mouthpiece. _________________ Richard
Today's Trumpet: 1937 Cleveland Toreador
Today's Cornet: York Eminence
Today's Mouthpieces: Cleveland T and C |
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Tony Scodwell Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2005 Posts: 1966
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Posted: Sat May 11, 2024 4:02 pm Post subject: Cheeks and high notes |
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Dizzy Gillespie was fond of telling young players that you need to tighten your "cheeks" for better results up high. Obviously he was referring to your butt. Just don't eat too much Mexican food before a gig...
Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com |
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