What mouthpieces should an 11 year old try?

[jkrz]

I received such great advice and feedback from the thread about getting a pro horn for my fifth grader, so hoping this community can guide me again.

Background: my son has been taking private lessons for 1.5 years and learned on a cheap Amazon trumpet that came with generic 7C. He's been playing on a Jupiter/XO Brass 1602S for a few months now. It came with a 3C. I much preferred the tone with the 3C, and noticed the higher notes came out cleaner, but my son did not like the feel and said it was too tiring to blow. I bought a Jupiter 7C (to avoid switching, old horn still goes to school), and private teacher suggests sticking with that.

I'm inclined to experiment and chase the better tone, thinking my son will just need some time to adjust to feeling/endurance. Curious to know what you think - ok to experiment now? If so, what do you recommend? If I should just wait, then what typically triggers a change?

EDIT:
I should clarify - I am not in search of the perfect mouthpiece. If the 3C had generated the same or worse tone then I wouldn't raise the issue. But since I know the cleaner tone is possible, my thought was, why not spend the summer trying 3 or 4, then settling on one to stick with? Or, for example, those that have experience working with kids, would it be a bad idea just to have him give the 3C a go for a few months?

[abontrumpet]

If your son is creating decent sounds on the 7C and he likes it, then as the private teacher said, "stick with it." Developing the player without constantly switching variables is more important than honing in the perfect piece (right now). If your son doesn't like, then it's worth looking into switching.

You should not be chasing the better tone for your kid (leave that for the teacher). Kids are growing and changing everyday. One day, he will ask you to buy a $400 mouthpiece and you will be grateful you saved up your pennies.

[jkrz]

[abontrumpet]

[mograph]

He shouldn't be changing just because his parent wants him to change ... and when his teacher says to stay for now.

When he wants to change the piece, and knows what he wants in the piece, then he can look at other pieces.

Don't meddle and risk having the kid lose his interest in practising. Do whatever keeps the kid practising on the horn so he can develop good tone on a mouthpiece that he likes. He can change when he's ready.
_________________
1985 Bach 37
1980 King 601 (it's bulletproof!)
1978 Couesnon flugelhorn
Playing for fun since 1979.
Fmr member 48th Highlanders of Canada Mil Band
Into that jazz devil music

[Irving]

Good advice Mograph. The worst thing you can do is get in your kid's way. If my parents would have done that I would have quit. Messing with mouthpieces can easily send a kid into a downward spiral. It sounds like he is doing well. I would listen to his teacher and not mention it again.

[JayKosta]

This might seem like 'over analysis' but it might just be that the sound improvement is because the 3C happens to fit better into the mouthpiece receiver of the trumpet - not because of the change in rim or cup.

There's typically a small gap (called the 'gap') between the end of the mouthpiece shank and the narrow ledge that is about 1 1/8 inch from the receiver opening. Typical gap is about 1/8 inch for Bach mouthpieces.
If the gap is much different than that, it can affect how the horn behaves.

Simple test is to insert the mouthpiece and put a piece of tape where the shank emerges from the receiver, and then measure the insertion amount.

Less insertion can be tested by wrapping a piece of thin paper around the shank.

And I agree that as long as the 7C rim feels comfortable, to stay with it.
I've been using Bach 7 mouthpiece since about your son's age, and likely well before you were born!
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

[Richard III]

Once again I am reminded of stories of great players of the past being asked what mouthpiece they used. The reply has been the one that came with the horn.

We can probably adapt to pretty much anything.
_________________
Richard

Today's Trumpet: 1937 Cleveland Toreador
Today's Cornet: 1947 Cleveland Clevelander
1943 Conn 80A Cornet

[Andy Cooper]

I looked at your other posts but could not determine - are you a trumpet player?

[jkrz]

[jondrowjf@gmail.com]

Happy to hear that you son is playing a Jupiter XO trumpet.
Has you son talked to his teacher or band director about mouthpieces? As stated earlier in this post, experimenting with mouthpieces would be fun.Possibly additional mouthpieces to consider are the 5C and 10.5 .The music your son's school band play will determine the mouthpiece too.
My suggestion is if you are up for it, is take trumpet lessons. Buy a used trumpet or cornet. Nice features though not need:
1st slide thumb saddle and 3rd slide fixed ring.
Getzen makes excellent trumpets and cornets. Favorite trumpet was Getzen Canadian Brass trumpet
Not familiar with Jupiter trumpets, love my Jupiter 520 M cornet.
Yamaha, Bach, or any major brand is a good choice.
Only my opinion and experiences as a hobbyist player.
Trumpetherald is an excellent source on the many aspects of playing brass instruments.
_________________
Current cornets and mouthpieces:
Jupiter 520 M shepherds crook cornet
Blessing Scholastic cornet (waiting on delivery)
Denis Wick 4 W classic gold short shank
Jupiter 9e (5 C) short shank mouthpiece
Getzen 4 b short shank mouthpiece

[chef8489]

The kid has only been playing 1.5 years. Stop being a helicopter parent and let the kid work with his teacher. You as the parent should have 0 influence on the equiptment and mouthpieces and time for the child to switch. That develops with the child and the instructor. The tone and core will developed on whatever mouthpiece the child is using and they should be comfortable on it. It is too early to be switching mouthpieces and child really needs to work on technique.
_________________
Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger

[Brassnose]

While chef sounds a little harsh, his advice is very smart. Let the kid and the teacher figure it out. Some mouthpieces ARE less comfortable/less suited than others and if he likes the 7C, fine.

When I started at eight years old until I was 20 I played one horn and the mouthpiece it came with - a JK 5C. And guess what? I still use that very mouthpiece on that very trumpet after 45 years of playing. Have yet to find a better match (never mind the horn is a C trumpet now).

Never change a running system. With only 18 months into playing, there is other stuff to do than changing mouthpieces.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Klier, (Frate or Curry)

[kalijah]

No beginner should play on a 7C.

In most cases, especially for younger beginners, Schilke 11A or 12B4 depending on the face.

If the option is 7C or 3C, use the 3C.

If the teacher is requiring a 7C, get a different teacher. If he is requiring the student to buzz the mouthpiece get another teacher yesterday!

[Brassnose]

What’s wrong with a 7C? In my over 40 years of playing I have never seen a beginner on a Schilke mp. What is the basis of your suggestion?
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Klier, (Frate or Curry)

[stuartissimo]

From my perspective you have 3 options:

a) let the teacher and your child sort this out amongst themselves; you are not a brass player yourself so at this point both are more knowledgable on this subject than you are
b) discuss this with the teacher; find out their reasoning and approach, then make the suggestion/ask the question you did on these forums if you deem their approach/knowledge lacking, and make an informed decision together
c) ignore both teacher and child and enforce a change. This may or may not lead to the desired result for you, and it may affect your child's enjoyment to play regardless of the outcome. Note that your decision would also be based on unverified internet replies by people who have no first-hand experience with your child's playing, nor are they all professional or succesful trumpet teachers.

Note that if you choose to overrule the teacher (regardless of whether that's a good idea), you may wish to consider finding a different teacher for your child altogether. After all, if you don't trust the teacher to make the right calls, then the question should be asked what the point is to continue lessons. Which isn't to say you are wrong mind you, just that if you don't trust the teacher to teach your child properly, what's the point in paying them?

Also, in general: improvement in trumpet playing cannot be forced, progress is not linear, and more practice doesn't neccesarily equal better results. Brass instruments require the player to produce the sound, and the result is therefore more dependent on the individual than say, a piano. Some individuals have a natural embouchure that's more suitable for early or quick progress than others. Struggling and not making much headway for weeks or months is sometimes part of discovering the nuances of the playing technique. This can be frustrating compared to other instruments that have the whole range of sounds available on day one, where a trumpet player may struggle for months just learning how to play a single scale. And then years to make that scale sound good.

So please, be patient with your child's progress. Good luck to both of you.
_________________
1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces

[kalijah]

[jkrz]

[kehaulani]

[jkrz]