Advice for a newcommer

[JuanLCZ]

Hello everybody.

I am a beginner trumpet player, lover of vintage instruments and new to the forum.

I want to purchase my first vintage trumpet from the list below and would apreciate some advice as I know very little about collectible trumpets.

Provided all were in good condition which is the best horn?

1929 Holton Revelation
1947 King Liberty
1949 Conn 12B Coprion
1950 King Liberty
Postwar F. Besson Brevete

Thank for your attention.

[kalijah]

If you can find one: Postwar F. Besson Brevete

all day every day and twice on Sunday.

[Richard III]

The reality is that in most cases trumpets that old have worn valves and may require a rebuild. If you are willing to shoulder that cost, then continue with this discussion.

I have an affinity for any King Liberty. I have an early one and it indeed needs a complete valve rebuild. For me it is hard to justify spending that much money. But most of my trumpets were less than $300 to purchase and most are pre-1950.
_________________
Richard

Today's Cornet: York Eminence
Today's Mouthpiece: Marcinkiewicz CG Personal 16 Throat

[JuanLCZ]

Thank you Richard and Kalija.

How would you sort the list from best to "worst"

How much could a valve rebuild be?

Apreciatted

[kehaulani]

Sorry, but considering the ages you're considering, there is a great range of inconsistency one horn to another. To really answer your question you either have to rely on a really honest and reliable seller or try the horn for yourself.

Regarding a Precision Valve Alignment (PVA), I think they're about $600.00. I have found that, while a horn may optimally benefit from a valve job, some respond well to the use of thicker valve oil.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker

Adams A-9 Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Getzen Capri Cornet (for sale).

[Dayton]

[ldwoods]

[JuanLCZ]

Very interesting. Thank you to you all who shared your views. Really apreciatted.

[jondrowjf@gmail.com]

I am a comeback player, came back end of February after a hiatus of three years. When I started playing eleven years ago, I bought many inexpensive vintage trumpets or cornets. I have owed conn directors, old ambassdors etc, and they held my playing level back.
Probably have owed over 300 trumpets/cornets in a eleven year period. Yes I should have spent more money on lessons and not bought some many student horns.
I have owed Getzen 390, 490, 590, 700 trumpets. I would start at the 700 series. The two professional trumpets I have owed were Getzen 900 and Getzen Canadian Brass.
When I decided to buy modern instruments I noticed a vast improvement in my ability, flexibility, easy of playing and sound quality of the instruments. Then I bought professional trumpets, the sea parted.
I found as other posters have stated a modern trumpet is an improvement over most vintage trumpets.
One of the advice that I wish that I would have listened to is to buy a modern professional trumpet as soon as possible.
Buy the most expensive modern professional trumpet you can buy.
.
_________________
Jupiter 520 M lacquered Shepherds crook cornet
Blessing XL lacquered Shepherds crook cornet
Denis Wick 4 W gold & Denis Wick 4B classic mp
Jupiter 9e silverplated short shank mouthpiece
Bach Megatone 5B mouthpiece

[DAVIDTHEWRITER]

[DAVIDTHEWRITER]

Allison Balsam endorses plastic trumpets.

It's amazing what technology is capable of making these days.
_________________
Against the decay of biological existence, go not quietly but damn screaming and kicking into that last night.

[mike ansberry]

Since you are just starting out, I would suggest getting a more modern horn. Collecting horns is something you might want to get into after you can play a little bit. A bad or worn out horn can make learning trumpet nearly impossible.

I have a small collection of vintage horns and love them, but I was very experienced when I bought them and still wound up buying a worn out one. It sits in the closet collecting dust. Maybe I'll make a lamp out of it someday.

I also run a brass repair shop, so I have played a LOT of horns. I would encourage you to start with a beginner trumpet. New ones are still a rather large investment. Please, please, please stick with a reputable name brand. There is some seriously junky stuff you can get for $250. Run away from that!

Yamaha and Getzen make very fine beginner instruments. New they are still quite an investment. If you are looking for something less expensive, I would recommend a used Getzen 300 trumpet. I have played many of them. They play exceptionally well. I have taken one that was in my shop on a gig and had no problems playing well on it.

I was also a middle school band director for 35 years. I've seen a lot of kids struggle and become discouraged when they are saddled with a horn that is of very poor quality.

Do you have a teacher? If so, have them play the horns you are interested in purchasing. They can be a big help finding the right horn.
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Music is a fire in your belly, fighting to get out. You'd better put a horn in the way before someone gets hurt.

[HERMOKIWI]

I have a collection of over 50 vintage trumpets going all the way back to 1913. Not one of them needed a valve overhaul or had any mechanical issues when I acquired them. The only issue has been deteriorating lacquer or plating wear.

Most vintage trumpets have been sitting around not being played for decades so they haven't been suffering mechanical wear for most of their life. A lot of them were never played much at all. Not that you can't encounter a horn that needs work but, overall, good, solid, reliable vintage horns are very plentiful.

Any of the horns on your list can be fine. To me, the least desirable would be the 1929 Holton Revelation. That's because in my experience 1920's and prior horns get a very dated sound.

The Kings would both be H.N. White manufactured horns and that was a very reputable manufacturer. I have several H.N. White King trumpets: A 1933 Silvertone, a 1938 Silvertone Model No. 2, a 1953 Silver Sonic and a 1957 Super 20 Symphony Silver Sonic. The 1933 horn especially is based on the Liberty design except with a sterling silver bell. Wayne Bergeron was at my house and played that horn and said "This plays like a modern horn."

I have a pre-War French Besson Meha and it is a great horn. The post-War French Bessons are not the same as the pre-War French Bessons and I've never played one so I can't express an opinion.

A 1949 Conn Coprion would have been a pro level horn in its day. I have several vintage Conn trumpets but the one that would be closest in design to a 1949 Coprion would be my 1939 New York Symphony Special which is an awesome horn, very fun and very easy to play. Of course the Coprion has the seamless electroformed copper bell while my New York Symphony Special has a conventional yellow brass bell.
_________________
HERMOKIWI

[Andy Cooper]

If you are a beginning trumpet player, you should make your first purchase a reliable modern trumpet with an appropriate mouthpiece.

Your vintage trumpets are then interesting instruments you collect to appreciate the sound and playing properties that were popular in different years. For some of the vintage trumpets you will either need to find mouthpieces from that period or be ready to have the shanks of your mouthpieces altered to fit the receivers properly - mainly the Kings.

You might want to give a little thought to a long term "theme" for your acquisitions - year - brand - etc.

Take a look at this website.
https://www.saxophone.org/museum/publications/manufacturer/56/museumType/0
You will find, in some cases, 100 years of publications from Conn, Holton, and King. Perhaps you might want to purchase horns that have the most documentation.

[Halflip]

[JuanLCZ]

Thank you all for your interesting views. Thank you Halflip and Andy Cooper for the links.

I been taking face to face weekly one hour lessons with a teacher for one year here in Europe.

The trumpets listed on my post are there because It is what it is available in what seems a trustful online selling company.

My trumpet is, I am embarrassed mentioning, a Thomann. Cost me 180€ There is a reason for that; when I started I wasn´t sure i was going to either like it or have the ability to play. I turns out that I like it a lot although I am of average skills! Besides my teacher, a clasically trained orchestra player, does not mind it at all. The idea of changing it is only mine

If I were a sensible man I would follow the wise advice from John Drowjf and Mike Asberry i.e buy a modern trumpet ot even a professional trumpet I could afford, spend all the time I "waste" looking for the ideal trumpet practicing instead, remind myself that the trumpet is only a tool to make music and comunicate with others which is the truly important thing.....,

And yet, I draw an inmense pleasure from taking a vintage instrument refurbish it, play it, make it my own and keep it alive a few more years.

To me an intermediate production Yamaha, Getzen, etc is a fine instrument but has not have the "soul" of an vintage trumpet. I rather have a fully refurbished vintage even if I have to spend more monety on it than on the average models of productionn brads which are the ones I can afford.

I would not mind replacing original parts for more modern ones to improve its playability as long as the frame remains.

This is only true for average instruments. Of course I would love owning a brand new Taylor, Resonance, or even a top Yamaha, Getzen.

It turns out that I am not a sensible man and I am certain I will pay for it!

[JuanLCZ]

Take a look at this website.
https://www.saxophone.org/museum/publications/manufacturer/56/museumType/0
You will find, in some cases, 100 years of publications from Conn, Holton, and King. Perhaps you might want to purchase horns that have the most documentation.[/quote]

Dear Andy Cooper: wonderful link. THANK YOU !!

[JuanLCZ]

You may find the following thread helpful:

https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=161637[/quote]

Very interesting thread. THANK YOU Halflip.

[Halflip]

[Brassnose]

While it can be a lot of fun to browse websites and ponder trumpet models I have a different suggestion. It looks like you have a qualified teacher (smart move) — you could ask him if he has people around him who are considering selling a horn. Lots of pros (or students around said teacher) may sell horns after a while and there may be an interesting candidate or two in there (still waiting for my teacher to sell his 52B ).

Edit: just saw that you are located in Europe (which country?) so you might consider buying used from a shop with a good reputation and a return policy (maybe call ahead to discuss options). Those are solid shops with a good reputation in Germany.

https://www.eppstore-instruments.de/
https://www.gebrauchte-blasinstrumente.eu/
https://brassmarket.de/
https://musik-gillhaus.de/Gebrauchte-Instrumente/Gebraucht-Blech/
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier