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Air Tongue coordination



 
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sgsop
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Joined: 17 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2024 7:03 pm    Post subject: Air Tongue coordination Reply with quote

Hi all, I have a question for you.

During a recent practice session I realized that while playing I’m leading with my tongue and not with my air. Once I realized this, I started playing with a more active air stream and tried to “ride the air” with my tongue. I’m curious if anyone has any idea on how to add this to my daily practice routine. Are there any exercises that you like that engage the air and make you feel like you’re leading from your diaphragm? This balance will be in the forefront of my practice for significant period starting now, but I would love to find as many different ways to address this issue as I can. I tend to lack imagination in my practice sessions and I want to develop a this habit in a consistent manner. Thank you in advance!
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zaferis
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2024 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, a "flag tonging" exercise.. I have two that I rotate through.
One that came from Vincent DiMartino .. basically starting with a measure 4 slow quarter (middle of the staff g) notes then 8ths, then 16ths (though I insert a measure of triplets) being sure to focus on the air (the tongue flapping in the breeze like a flag on a pole). moving up chromatically to at least the c in the staff.
Or a rhythmic repetition starting on a g, of two 5/8 measures accenting 1 and 3 (XxXxx, XxXxx) followed by increasingly longer measures - 7/8 (XxXxXxx), 9/8 (XxXxXxXxx) Again focusing on the same tongue action accenting with pulses of air - the air is doing the work not the tongue. The tongue thus doing the same action-steady 1/8's throughout. again up chromatically.

||: daily practice isolating proper Air, Tongue, Fingers :|| before combining these these elements.

Air
Air + Tongue
Air + Fingers
Air + Tongue + Fingers
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abontrumpet
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2024 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's always difficult to give specific advice when we are not hearing you play, but I will try to give some general advice:

The primary function of the tongue during articulation is to seal the system temporarily. To practice this, you can simply play a long tone, get the tongue to seal the system for a second or two while everything else remains "the same" or "in equilibrium," then remove the tongue to restart the note. Often when people are trying to "ride the air" they end up sealing the system less and tongue less precisely, don't be afraid to tongue with more deliberation.

"Not riding the air," to me indicates perhaps one of two things that can both be related to the above "primary function" write-up.
1. Your tongue is struggling to maintain efficiency at quicker tempos; or
2. you are not getting the right "sound/shape" of the note and it makes it sound clunky

For 1. You must gain efficiency by tonguing a lot with good technique. For 2. you must realize that beyond the "sealing" function of the tongue, the rest of articulation is dependent on how you deliver your sound (which includes air) on any given note or series of notes.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2024 5:04 am    Post subject: Re: Air Tongue coordination Reply with quote

I suggest not attempting to control specific muscles for blowing - such as
sgsop wrote:
... feel like you’re leading from your diaphragm? ...

- I think that concentrating that way could detract from the necessary overall coordination of air and tongue.

Some people suggest that for initial attack of a note, to do it in steps:
Position tongue to stop the air
Increase internal air pressure to proper level
Release the tongue to sound the note on time

While that might work for them, I think most players have better results doing the attack as a quick single action of both tongue and air.
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Robert P
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Joined: 28 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2024 9:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Air Tongue coordination Reply with quote

sgsop wrote:
Hi all, I have a question for you.

During a recent practice session I realized that while playing I’m leading with my tongue and not with my air. Once I realized this, I started playing with a more active air stream and tried to “ride the air” with my tongue. I’m curious if anyone has any idea on how to add this to my daily practice routine. Are there any exercises that you like that engage the air and make you feel like you’re leading from your diaphragm? This balance will be in the forefront of my practice for significant period starting now, but I would love to find as many different ways to address this issue as I can. I tend to lack imagination in my practice sessions and I want to develop a this habit in a consistent manner. Thank you in advance!

Based on what you've said here your concept is incomplete.

I don't know what you mean by leading with your tongue, riding the air. Your tongue and air need to do what they need to do for any given pitch and volume level. As I've said numerous times in here there are multiple elements that *all* have to be in place. Your tongue and air are part of it but only part of it.

Quoting myself from another thread - you can search through my previous posts to find the same input, you'll find me debating others who don't think it's necessary to be aware of these elements - it's been crucial for me.

Quote:
pressure/pressure distribution, teeth gap/alignment/horn angle, what's going on with the muscles of the lips & face, lip overlap of the edges of the teeth, tongue & oral cavity, throat, use of air.

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Wilktone
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2024 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Without hearing you play, I'm not certain exactly what your description actually means. It seems more like a playing analogy than actual description of playing mechanics. That said, if it's speaking to you, keep using it.

I think of the tongue as a refining factor of the attack, where the air is the defining factor. You can practice breath attacks and then go into a very light tongued attack to work on this.
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