Best pedal tone exercises?

[rhatheway]

A few weeks back in one of the forums here on TH (don't remember which one) someone mentioned that he didn't really understand the reason for using pedal tones. I admit, I didn't either until I started reading some of the responses from various (and much more experienced) trumpet players. I thought I had bookmarked that discussion, but I can't find it, so I'm reposting the topic as a new question to try and collect responses in one place (in case others are interested).

So..., what are the best recommended pedal tone exercises to use? When you post answers, please explain the value of the exercises and how they relate to strengthening or developing other areas of playing the trumpet.

Thanks all!

[Seymor B Fudd]

Playing pedal tones usually means playing the notes below low G, below staff.
In James Stamp´s method pedal C is the C one octave below C just below the staff.

I for one has used his method a couple of years finding his method a good one but it didn´t result in the development I was looking for.

In another method, the Balanced Embouchure (BE) by Jeff Smiley, the pedal tones are integrated in the very method - together with other ingenious twists of exercises. However there is a big and unique feature of this method, the pedal tones here are double pedals.
The pedal we are talking about here is the C 2 octaves below the C just below the staff!.
This way of trying to play pedal tones does force the student to shape the embouchure in such a way that these tones are produced not as horse-blaring but as well sounding, focussed tones, in tune (not that easy to begin with) where seamlessly ascending up the ladder to well above high C is the goal. These excercises are named ROll Out and pin point the development of flexibility, strength in the lip muscles, focussing on the achievment of a tight aperture and is to be combined with excercises named RI (Roll In), playing increasingly higher tones without attack and so on.

I have been using this method since 2015 thereby achieving the development I was looking for. Still improving. I was 73 when I began the be, I´ve been playing in bands since 1958 so I do have some experience.
Integrating the double pedals in a unified method thus has contributed immensely to my present "state of art".
_________________
Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974)

[kehaulani]

My take-away is that there are two fundamental goals when playing pedals.

- Use the same embouchure that you would use when playing in the staff (this is different from the pedal-range exercises in the Balanced Embouchure).

- Play from pedal range into the "normal" range (keeping the same basic embouchure formation).

Maggio has a very good set of exercises for this.
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[Dayton]

[bach_again]

Done wrong they are best avoided, done right they can help - but don't do so universally.

I would advise lessons from someone who can adequately teach Stamp - and I mean someone well versed in the approach and in the methodology, not someone with a passing knowledge. A student of Stamp or McNab (or McNab himself). Get as close to the source as possible. Otherwise just leave well enough alone, you can do more damage than good going at it wrong.

Mike
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[abontrumpet]

[stuartissimo]

[abontrumpet]

[Xikahon]

Start with a comfortable low note (such as low C or G). Gradually descend chromatically to pedal C (or lower if you can). Hold each note for 10-20 seconds, focusing on a steady airflow and consistent pitch.

[Seymor B Fudd]

[abontrumpet]

[Seymor B Fudd]

1)"I disagree that HOW you play something is more important than WHAT you play (my claim) -- but once I learned HOW to play them 'the right way' then they demonstrated their value." So thank you for agreeing with me lol.

In all humility (I´m not the argueing typ) I have to say that I can´t find the contradiction. The essence of what I said was that as I, extensively, have been playing the pedals (simple pedals, the pedals commonly referred to as pedals) the way that say Stamp have outlined in his system and later on the double pedals as outlined by Jeff Smiley, I have found the latter, in my case, to be superior. A game changer. In spite of me playing the pedals in the way Stamp prescribed them to be played.
Maybe we might agree on that the very process of learning to play a certain excercise is a goal in itself?

2)Of course there are no Stampian pedals. Pedals are out there (or down there) irrespective of who use them - kind of invariants of our physical world. Naming them Stampian was done solely to put the use of them in a system probably known to many.

3)Yes I agree that the way you play a certain exercise is of outmost importance.

However

4)I disagree with a)"Furthermore, there are no "exercises" that are "better" than others." I maintain that there is! Some excercises are better than others.

I agree that "There are exercises that meet you and your skill level more effectively (which leads to quicker improvement or that "aha" moment), but ultimately, it comes back to "you mut be able to achieve all combinations of notes equally well."

The last part (ultimately....)seems very reasonable.

So: a discussion of more or less worthwile exercises might be straight ahead?

Or?
_________________
Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974)

[abontrumpet]

[Seymor B Fudd]

So do I! Maybe this after all boiled down to a play of words. But the essential thing is that some form of playing is involved.
Yes thanks!

However maybe some exercises are better than others?

Anyway - not having a teacher until I was well above 70 (began at 15) I kept playing on a fairly high amateur level - and I do think that the Charles Colin (Advanced) Lip Flexibilities are to be thanked for that. Plus of course my (almost) nerdy way of practicing them.

Of course not the whole story; the greater part of all these years playing front row cornet in a brass band must have contributed. I mean, the very music with it´s demand of technique, the double tongue, you name it, probably in itself constituted kind of teaching. Playing music such as the Thievish Magpie; Merry wives of windsor; Slavonic Rhapsody (Friedman) required a lot of practicing....all these hours....sigh...
( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nchKebtdDsw ) (Friedmann) not that fast ...
( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u21vcOjSEc8 ) Merry Wives of windsor)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe72816Xzyg (Magpie)

But the Lip flexibilities!!! Helped me the most. But that was me. With my chops/constitution.

So maybe an interesting topic might be: what kind of excercises/musical life have been the main ingredients in your musical development??

I will start a new tread ASAP!
_________________
Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974)