Adding 1st and 3rd slides to old horns

[radiobob]

I have a few antique, pro level horns that weren't made with adjustable 1st and 3rd valve slides, the idea being to just lip the notes into tune, which it seems was preferred in the old days. I'm thinking of having them added to my horns. Any thoughts on whether this is advisable or not and if it would change the way they play? Any ideas are welcomed. Thanks.

Bob

[Martin]

I don´t think it will alter the playing characteristics, but it´s probably going to negatively affect their value for collectors.
Triggers may be the way to go since they don´t require the slides to be modified too much - and they can easily be removed if you decide to go back to the original configuration.
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All the best

Martin
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"I have found that it is enough when a single note is beautifully played." - Arvo Pärt

[Trptbenge]

It depends if you bought them to play or if they are really collectable. If they are rare and collectable then maybe not. However, if they are just antique horns that you want to play then I would do it. In other words, if you have a pre-war French Besson in fabulous shape I wouldn't do it, but if you had a pre-war King Liberty then that would be another matter.

Mike
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It's the sound that makes the difference!

[tom turner]

Hi,

The length to cut the valve slides has changed in "modern" times from what was generally used 75+ years ago.

1. Many top vintage horns were constructed so the player did NOT have to use a finger ring or trigger on a valve slide to adjust an offending note to bring it in tune. This was done by making the third valve slide LONGER than it is on horns designed to use triggers and rings today. On these vintage horns, ALL notes in the scale were able to be lipped into tune thanks to the longer third valve slide assembly!

THE TRADEOFF . . . the 2-3 combination notes on horns employing this philosophy of valve slide lengths are somewhat flat and need to be lipped up slightly. Big deal.


2. Today's philosophy is to cut the third valve slide SHORTER than the old philosophy so that the 2-3 combination notes are "perfectly" in tune.

TRADEOFF? . . . this makes the 1-3 combination notes VERY sharp, and 1-2-3 combination notes are EXTREMELY SHARP!

This means one MUST kick out either the first or third valve slide about 1/2" to bring the low D in tune AND kick the slide out much farther to bring the low Db into pitch!

WHICH SYSTEM IS BEST?

Frankly, I prefer the vintage system! All notes on a great vintage instrument, such as a Boston 3-Star cornet, ARE able to be lipped into tune easily without changing the player's tone! Also, there are many 40-60 year old premium trumpets out there that were designed not to need triggers and hooks . . . all the player needs is a good EAR!

Today's instruments FORCE the player to use the triggers/hooks . . . and changing the grip to do so also causes subtle effects on the way the mouthpiece rests on the lip. Sometimes the extra vibration and/or pressure and grip angle changes can result in greater lip fatigue.

Sadly, the modern horns don't have a way to prevent the low D and low D# from sounding if someone forgets to trigger those notes!!! Before someone gets offended by this remark let me invite you to go listen to most any high school or middle school band concert to observe how many of the kids DON'T trigger their low D and Db on their shiny silver Strads. The modern system thus can be a really bad thing if all players don't listen and trigger!!!

Today's young trumpeters might just be amazed as to how easy it is to play the top vintage horns in tune! Today's horns, with their nearly "perfect" scale (but with the tradeoff of this making for super sharp 1-3 and 1-2-3 combinations) may actually trick some musicians into thinking that they don't need to listen anymore!

Sincerely,

Tom Turner