Opinions - Bach Bb w/ 37 or 37G

[riffdawg2000]

Just wondering folk's opinion on these two bell choices ...

Personally, I think the 37G give a little more 'core' and warmth to the tone that 'I' produce ...

Anyone else??
_________________
Joel Thomas

[KevinInGeorgia]

HHHMMM. Do I hear some Regret from you on selling the 37G you had??

I liked your 37G just had some quirky valve problems.. In hindsight if you would have sent it to Wayne Tanabe for a PVA & had him do some work on the valves you would have kept it..

I think the 37G added a little darkness to your sound without making it tubby.

Unlike my horn when you play it you are Dark but it sucks the Air out of you..
Guess that's what happens when you have a Bach ML with a 72 bell, Blackburn 350 leadpipe & a Blackburn tuning slide.. BUT in your defense it did take me over 2 weeks to be able to play it with some control..

As an Aside for everyone else: Joel & I are close friends & play a LOT of Gigs with each other so we both know each other’s horns.. He has an amazing Stomvi Picc that he says is even better now that he got the PVA done on it.. I’ve been to busy to play it..


Kevin



_________________
Kevin Myers
Conductor: Cumming Cornet Band
Associate Conductor: "Sounds of Sawnee" Community Band

“Don't play what's there, play what's not there.”~ Miles Davis

[ This Message was edited by: KevinInGeorgia on 2004-04-23 09:42 ]

[bgwbold]

Personally I have a little trouble "hearing" myself in a section when playing a G bell, and the same thing goes for rose brass (except for flugel bells). I prefer regular weight yellow brass or lightweight yellow brass. Some folks get a naturally bright sound though, even on the G or rose brass bells. I probably get a naturally darker sound.

Mike

[Jon Arnold]

I prefer the yellow brass bell because there are more highs in the sound. I tend to play dark anyway and need the all the brilliance I can get. If I played a lot of classical the G bell would be a good choice. It is a matter of personal preference.

_________________
Yamah 6310-Z GR 3S
Bach 37, Blackburn 19-348 Leadpipe, GR 3M
Yamaha 631, GR 3FL

[ This Message was edited by: Jon Arnold on 2004-04-23 10:42 ]

[_dcstep]

I agree totally with Jon, preferring the balance between core, brilliance and projection that's only available with yellow brass. Still, it's a matter of personal choice and the characteristics are close enough that either will work in most sections.

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

[riffdawg2000]

Hence, the reason I asked the question.

I have a naturally dark tone. But, I REALLY like the tone that I produce on a 37G (at least the one I had). I mainly play in classical settings, so 'bright' is not a good thing .. just enough to penetrate the rest of the ensemble. Projection is a concern, but I am not in a professional symphony and I usually do not play in a hall that bigger than maybe a 1000 people. I personally think that the 37G would work in situations like that.

Yes, it sounds like I am set on a 37G, but I still want opinions ... you all might bring up a point I have not thought of ...

How about use of a 37G in chamber groups, etc..

[dbacon]

Everybody sounds different, it depends on how you sound, not us. I have a LT Bach that gives me a warm sound but someone else sounds very edgy on it. Your oral cavity, body type, training, most important what you hear in your mind are all more important than some number on the bell.

Don't pick out stereo equipement by numbers, but by listening.

Same for your trumpet.

[davo]

Here is an excerpt I received from Yamaha when I inquired about the sonic differences between a yellow brass bell and an gold brass bell. Although the inquiry was specific to the Xeno, this likely applies generically to all trumpets.

..."Although summarizing the exact differences
between yellow brass and gold is not easy, I will do my best. There is a
conception that gold brass is "darker" than yellow brass. This is true
at medium and lower volumes but at loud volumes, you can get a definite
edge from gold brass. One way to look at gold verses yellow may be that
gold brass seems to contain the sound more than yellow brass. After
listening to many players play the Shotblast finish, it seems to me that
the overtones are more prominent."

The next to last line seems to mean that projection is greater with a gold brass bell, due to the containment of the sound. Bobby Shew told me that silver and gold plating also has this effect, relative to lacquer, which he prefers for his 6310Z/8310Z, for this reason, among others.

I think the difference in sound is very subtle and likely not to be noticed by many other than outselves in a direct A/B comparison.

[Tootsall]

And Noel Langley who has tested all of the various bell materials (and bell shapes and weights) for Eclipse says this about "red brass" (which is essentially the same thing as the material that Yamaha calls "gold brass")

Quote: Like the medium yellow this is a very versatile horn - a near perfect blend of warmth and projection. The red brass brings a depth to the sound which is silky smooth, rich and dark, however it is still a lively and agile trumpet. It responds very quickly and has a sparkling top register with effortless projection. Equally suited to jazz ballads or lyrical chamber music, at home in a big band or an orchestral trumpet section - the medium red could be the ideal choice for a ‘crossover player’. Unquote

His comments seem to point in the same direction as Yamaha's.... smooth, rich, dark but with the ability to "sparkle" and project when pushed.

[_dcstep]

I don't agree the contention that gold brass will project better than yellow brass, all other things being equal. Generally, higher overtones carry better into the room. If the horn has an "edge" up close (lots of high overtones), when you listen to it from 40-feet it'll sound smooth, but with brilliance. OTOH, a horn that has no "edge" and sound smooth and warm up close will lack brilliance from 40-feet. In my experience, yellow brass horns are more likely to have an "edge" than gold brass horns, all other things being equal.

The writer that said he has a naturally dark tone should generally steer toward a more brilliant horn, IMHO. Of course, the reason he probably sounds "dark" is because he likes that and strives for it. I'd just warn against gilding the lilly by putting dark on dark. SO, listen to a prospective horn up close AND far away, and then consider how it'll be used. If you'll be playing into a mic most of the time then how it sounds at 40-feet will be irrelevant, for example. OTOH, in church, an orchestra or wind ensemble, the sound from a distance will gain importance.

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

[Jon Arnold]

Besides materials the bell flair and design of the horn can have a drastic effect on the sound the horn produces.

[tptptp]

I've always had difficulty describing feel and sound with the adjectives available to us. Probably like the feel or sound of that big V8. I never felt great in my regular 37's, but now I like myself in my 37G. Whether this is because of the brass or a combination of things, who knows.
_________________
Craig Mitchell

[bgwbold]

I have sat next to a Xeno red brass bell player for at least a year. He gets a naturally bright sound and the red brass has definitely helped keep his sound from coming out harshly bright. For him it is a good balance since with a yellow brass bell it would be too bright. I am just the opposite.

It would be great if you could get both on approval and see which works best for you.

Mike