Repairing Vintage Horn

conn53victor · Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 7:11 pm Post subject:

I have a 'new' eBay horn that I hoped was a steal. Alas, I got about what I paid for. It's a 1950 Olds Special with valves so worn that I really don't understand how someone kept playing them to get them that bad. I looked for a hole somewhere. When I put in my Ambassador valves, it played much better. How do I decide what is worth doing? I can't play it first... It doesn't work well enough. I love my LA Ambassaadors (trumpet and cornet). It also has two repairs done with what looks like plumbers solder. Should I give it up and relist with a frank description of its many charms? Pick one:
A. Will take a complete overhaul
B. Great player with character

Trptbenge · Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 7:39 pm Post subject:

Eventhough I think the Special is a much under rated horn. it was considered an intermediate horn by Olds but the one I used to own had a wonderful, almost Bach like sound. It wasn't quite as responsive as a Super or the Studio I had.

Cost in restoring the horn is going to be the key. There are several fine repair and restoration specialists. Here in Atlanta we are fortunate to have Rich Ita (770) 420-8700. In Florida (Nokomis FL.) is John Lynch, Wayne Tanabe at the Brass Bow in Chicago and Robb Stewart in California.

You could email Rich with a detailed description and pictures to get a quote at richita1@earthlink.net

His website is: http://www.brassinstrumentworkshop.com/index.html

It is hard to find anyone better - who is a nicer guy.

Thanks!

Mike
_________________
It's the sound that makes the difference!

Tom LeCompte · Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:04 pm Post subject:

Rich Ita's web site says:

"NOTE: Unfortunately due to a high volume in new repair demands, we will not be taking on any new customers that need repair work until further notice."

Which sounds like bad news. I suspect that Ebay is responsible - a lot of horns are coming out of attics and garages, and the people who can fix them up again are swamped. However, it's pretty amazing what a valve job can do for a horn. A good tech can make the valves better than new.

Cheers,

Tom

jhatpro · Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 9:16 pm Post subject:

A complete overhaul is going to cost you $500 to $700. Since you have a couple of horns you enjoy playing, you might simply keep watching eBay and try to pick up another Olds cheap and salvage the valves.
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

Gilligan · Posted: Mon May 03, 2004 8:49 pm Post subject:

Anderson Plating sent me this quote awhile back.

Approx $400.00 to re-silver plate, including prep work. Valve job is additional.
We can refit the pistons but not slides. $275.00 plus shipping approx

Contact them at:
Anderson Silver Plating [info@andersonsilverplating.com]

[ This Message was edited by: Gilligan on 2004-05-04 21:38 ]

alanbach · Posted: Mon May 03, 2004 11:05 pm Post subject:

Contact this guy...he often has Olds parts on Ebay....I bought some Recording valves off him a couple of months ago aimmor17@optonline.net ..best of luck

bgwbold · Posted: Tue May 04, 2004 3:52 am Post subject:

Would have to guess that it would be next to impossible to expect to ever get your money back if you do a complete overhaul, but something short of that might be workable if you like the horn.

Mike

riffdawg2000 · Posted: Tue May 04, 2004 3:54 am Post subject:

Here are another two 'shops' that do restorations you might want to try ..

http://www.musical-instrument-repair-shop.com/

http://www.oberloh.com/index.htm
_________________
Joel Thomas

livertwist · Posted: Tue May 04, 2004 4:54 am Post subject:

Strangely enough I have a VERY similar request. I just sold my 1933 Olds Super to a guy on eBay. Great transaction, very smooth. I got him the best price for shipping and packed it in so much styrofoam the shipping cost extra. However, Purolator Courier/Airborne Express (I will NEVER use them again.. EVER) damaged the box so badly that the brace between the tuning slide and bell is broken and the bell is rippled. I insured it for $800 Canadian, thank goodness. Now it needs to be repaired.. I'm just sick about the whole thing. It was in amazing shape for 71+ years old. He lives in Overland Park, Kansas and if anyone knows of a good repair place nearby that does excellent work - or even one not so nearby - in a reasonably short amount of time, that would be appreciated. You can respond on here or email or PM me. I sent another horn to Oberloh and they do great work, but they are pretty backed up, like all great brass overhaul places. Maybe John Lynch would have some time to look at it? Thanks,

Oliver

jophst · Posted: Tue May 04, 2004 5:08 am Post subject:

I will go ahead and give my highest recommendation to Dr. Valve. His work is absolutely top of the line and he does great restoration work.

My valves on my Bach that he had overhauled and replated are the best in the entire world! I challenge anyone to have better valves than mine .... HA!

His prices are very reasonable considering the amount of detail he puts into his work. He is very precise!!!
_________________
Bb - Yamaha Xeno 8335RGS
Picc - Yamaha 9830 w/PVA
Flugel - Yamaha Shew 6310Z
Laskey's 68MD,68C,PIC,68F,68DB

jophst · Posted: Tue May 04, 2004 5:09 am Post subject:

However ... keep in mind that there is a point when the overhaul might seem a bit UN-costeffective. Make sure it is a horn you really want to keep before sending it off.
_________________
Bb - Yamaha Xeno 8335RGS
Picc - Yamaha 9830 w/PVA
Flugel - Yamaha Shew 6310Z
Laskey's 68MD,68C,PIC,68F,68DB

jhatpro · Posted: Tue May 04, 2004 5:14 am Post subject:

He might try Meyer Music, a group of family owned music stores, with repair services and a store located in Highland Plaza at 119th & 69 Highway in Overland Park. The phone number is (913) 491-6636.

If he would prefer to send it to a nationally-known specialist, I'd recommend Steve Wynans, a fine trumpet player who learned instrument repair under Renold Schilke. Steve is located near Chicago in LaGrange, IL, and can be reached through his Website at http://www.doctorvalve.com

Steve has restored and repaired horns for Chicago Symphony Orchestra players and does outstanding work with reasonable prices and fast turnaround. He did a beautiful job of restoring my Conn 80A. I recommend him highly.
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

jophst · Posted: Tue May 04, 2004 5:18 am Post subject:

Ditto the above ... he gave more information than I did about Dr. Valve. Amazing gentleman and professional .... and very honest.
_________________
Bb - Yamaha Xeno 8335RGS
Picc - Yamaha 9830 w/PVA
Flugel - Yamaha Shew 6310Z
Laskey's 68MD,68C,PIC,68F,68DB

wardsd · Heavyweight Member Joined: 12 Mar 2003 Posts: 504

I would recommend Charlie Melk. He recently redid a 3 digit Olds for me. He replaced the leadpipe with one he made, and I had the engraving retouched (he took care of getting that done as well). He removed a significant dent in the bell and relacqueredit - all for $350. I great price, and he does good work. give him a call at (262) 827-1515.

Steve

trumpettyler · Posted: Tue May 04, 2004 5:51 am Post subject:

I've seen excellent restoration work on Olds horns done by Kanstul. Zig was responsible for those Olds models back in the day, so I assume that's why they will work on them.

I recall a TH member that posted before and after shots of his Ambassador after adding a new leadpipe and having Kanstul do the rest. It looked killer. I don't remember off hand about the valves though, which seems to be your main problem.

Just FYI, I guess.
_________________
Burned out young, but comin' back!
2007 Harrelson 907 based on 1954 Holton 51 LB

bgwbold · Posted: Tue May 04, 2004 7:10 am Post subject:

I will just say again that it is very easy to get upside down on a horn like this and wind up with so much invested that it does not make economic sense. With an Olds Special, there is frankly just a lower up side to what you can sell it for compared to the Recording, Super, Mendez or Opera. I might consider it for a horn of mine that has sentimental value, but for anything else, I would probably try to resist the temptation to make it perfect.

Mike

conn53victor · Posted: Tue May 04, 2004 7:42 am Post subject:

I am the original poster: "It's a 1950 Olds Special with valves so worn that I really don't understand how someone kept playing them to get them that bad." I think I will finish cleanng it and then put in Ambassador valves to decide if it's worth the effort to proceed just a little further. It might well go back to the 'Bay with an honest description:

Plays like a new horn. No sign of valve wear. Once owned by every famous trumpet player who ever lived.

musicmork · Heavyweight Member Joined: 13 Mar 2004 Posts: 1530

I didn't know that Ambassador valves would work in a SPECIAL.

Is that a safe thing to do?
_________________
MARK /aka "musicmork"/ aka " The Creator "
TRUMPET: Getzen , Olds
MOUTHPIECES Bach 3-C, Schilke 13a4a
CORNET: Holton Galaxy (Awesome horn)
KEYBOARDS: Kurzweil PC88MX,Yamaha S-30, Casio Privia 575R

conn53victor · Posted: Tue May 04, 2004 12:13 pm Post subject:

musicmork posted: I didn't know that Ambassador valves would work in a SPECIAL. Is that a safe thing to do?
_________________

I will be sure to use a condom until a long term relationship develops. Actually if everything is clean and lubricated (sheesh, this is getting worse and worse) then I think it is an okay test. I would be cautious about damaging any parts, but it might point to a solution. Anyone have a set of Olds valves to part with cheap?

Gilligan · Posted: Tue May 04, 2004 7:27 pm Post subject:

Mike at Anderson Plating sent me this quote a while back
We can refit the pistons but not the slides. $275.00 plus shipping approx.
Anderson Silver Plating [info@andersonsilverplating.com]