Kanstul Valves

[M.lock3]

I am currently using a French Besson Classic and a Kanstuil .464 Chicago.
Both respond beautifully , high G wanders a bit on the Chicago.
VALVES I am forever cleaning them !
Is there a good break in procedure.
regards
Mike
_________________
Benge forever !

[Martin]

I haven´t seen Tom Turner around here for some time, so I´ll just cut and paste what he has written in a similar thread over at the Trumpet Master Forum. I´m sure he won´t mind.

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[quote]

THE PROBLEM WITH BRAND NEW HORNS

1. It is impossible to totally clean all the buffing compounds and extremely tiny contaminants out of the horn before selling. New horns need to be snaked out much more often during the first 90 days . . . not because they GOT dirty . . . but because the saliva is slowly breaking the contaminants free inside the horn and those contaminants are working their way into the valve casing area and gumming up the valves.

2. Additionally, as all the brand new valves break in with their valve casings, and the way each player pushes down the valves, more metal is “smoothed” by that friction and becomes new contaminants too.

Simply pulling out valves and oiling them doesn’t remove the black residue that’s causing the valves to gum up. Plus, valves break in better and last longer if you use the following regimen?


OK . . . here goes . . .


BEFORE BEGINNING
1. Get some lint-free cheesecloth to wipe down any build up and contaminants each time before re-oiling. This is important on tight fitting valves for a little debris can really mess things up. Keep the unused portions of cheesecloth in a sealed zip-lock bag in your case between oilings.

2. Get some Blue Juice oil to help speed up the time to "clean" the contaminants from your horn during break-in. Blue Juice has special detergents in it that will not just oil the valves but also serve to “wash” free the contaminants better so the crud will come off on the cheesecloth.

DON‘T OIL . . . CLEAN THE HORN OFTEN TOO DURING BREAK IN!
Simply re-oiling the new valves is not going to lessen your problem . . . for a while. Let's "speed up" the break in period and make the horn totally reliable starting TONIGHT!



CLEANING REGIMEN
1. VALVES--Remove the valves and stand them up in an old coffee cup that’s filled will warm, soapy water high enough to cover the valves below the valve spring areas (never the felts!) and allow the soapy water to degrease the valves while you attack the horn.

2. SLIDES--Before soaking the slides, wipe down the male-inserted parts that slide into the horn . . . As well as the male areas on the horn that the slides fit onto to remove as much lanolin or slide grease as possible. [Slide grease both lubricates the horn AND traps microscopic contaminants including metal, so you want to get as much of that crud out of the horn so it doesn’t eventually float into the valve casing area]

3. HORN BODY AND SLIDES
Let ’em soak about 15 minutes, then snake out each area well. After snaking the horn, brush the valve casings with a nylon valve casing brush, then rinse in clean water, followed by swabbing out the valve casings extremely well with a piece of clean, soft 100% cotton. This will further remove any oily build up, especially in the critical area just below the valve in its up position.

4. Now attack the valves! Remove them from the degreasing soapy water, CLEAN OUT THE VALVES INTERNAL HOLES with your valve brush (lots of crud comes down the leadpipe and can collect in the valve . . . ready to break free and lock up a valve at any time). Rinse everything with clean water and then use the cheesecloth, which will remove remaining oil and bits of contaminants! Place the valves on a VERY CLEAN surface.

Before putting the valves into the horn evenly run a sparing amount of valve oil down and around the valve casings. Then oil the valves, place 'em in the horn and gently rotate them 5 or 10 degrees from their normal alignment spot (again to make sure all contaminants break free). Push the valve up and down a couple of times, then REMOVE and clean the valve again with the cheesecloth. Lightly re-oil the valves and return the valves for good.

BOTTOM LINE . . .
The goal is to flush all that factory buffing rouge and metal-to-metal crud from the entire horn as soon as possible so the valves don’t’ get broken in with abrasives causing valve metal scoring.

Expect the cheesecloth to be super black each time you wipe down the valves when you OIL THE VALVES EVERY TIME YOU TAKE IT OUT TO PLAY FOR THE FIRST THREE MONTHS!

Once the cheesecloth doesn’t show black, congratulations, your super clean horn is also properly broken in and your valves will be incredible and reliable for years to come!

Hope this helps,

Tom

PS: After the break in period and the cheesecloth is not black each time, you can switch to your favorite “brew” for your valves!

[end of quote]

***

I didn´t try all this, but it sounds reasonable to me.
BTW, Kanstul recommends Pro-Oil Hybrid for their valves.
_________________
All the best

Martin
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"I have found that it is enough when a single note is beautifully played." - Arvo Pärt

[M.lock3]

Many thanks
Mike
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Benge forever !

[Trptbenge]

I cleaned my valves and slides often when I first got my 1500 and it really did help the break-in process.

Mike
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It's the sound that makes the difference!

[camel lips]

Yep,Kanstul valves are a pain in the first few months.Just do what Tom suggested and you will be fine.

Also use the pro oil that Kanstul recommends.It makes a big difference.

[Tootsall]

If I can also make a recommendation: there is a cleaning kit available that is made in Germany called "Reka". They are sold by WW&BW/Music123 over here. Eclipse includes one of these with every trumpet they sell.... it's the only way to clean out their "continuous leadpipe". Anyway... these kits include a snake that has a sponge foam ball on the end of some kind of synthetic "string" that has a small (wooden?) ball on the other end. It also includes two foam balls (one for tubing and one sized for valve casings) on short "sticks" also made from some synthetic.

The instructions call for you to saturate these foam balls in soap and then snake through all of the tubing. They do a FANTASTIC job! They are under compression so they really "squeegee" well, dragging all kinds of "fotsam and jetsam" out. If you sense that the snake is about to jam in the venturi just drop a bit of valve oil down on top of it and it'll pop right on through. You feed the wooden end of the snake into the leadpipe through the 3rd valve casing so it does a total job.

The instructions say that there is a kit for French horns too... you hold the rotary valve open and the ball goes right through the rotor! I don't have to worry about THAT but I do know that I'm ordering a second kit "just because". If you've got a horn that is REALLY grunged up I'd say go get it chemcleaned. But if you have a new horn (or freshly restored instrument) and want to give the pipes a really good cleanout before that stuff can get into the valves this is the way I'd go.

[bophead]

I have been playing Kanstul instruments for quite a while. I have found that swabbing the valve casing out with alcohol on cheese cloth and wiping down the valves with the a clean piece of cheese cloth, again soaked in alcohol. I make sure to wipe the valve caps to remove any matter. I did this daily while I broke my horns in and it has worked wonders. It is a bit labor intense but worth the effort in the long run. My 14 year old Kanstul Flugel horn has the slickest valves I have ever played. My 2 year old 1500 has an incredible set of valves. Kanstul does great things with a piece of pipe.

hb
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Earl
CG Benge

[DaveH]

When a horn is brand new, I suggest that you clean and oil the valves daily after each use for at least two weeks; maybe a little longer. I believe I have read or heard various lengths of time, but I would do it for at least two or three weeks. I do not believe the brand of the horn matters.

Remove the valves and wash them gently with some mild soapy water(do not get any felts wet), dry thoroughly, and generously re-oil - both the valve and the inside of the casing.

IMO, if you will take the time and effort to do this cleaning and re-oiling when the horn is brand new, the valve action will be much better for the rest of the life of the horn.

This is what I have done based on information passed on to me, and I think it has helped promote a good valve break-in and subsequent action.