Buying a horn sight unseen

Tom LeCompte · Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 4:24 pm Post subject:

Have any of you ever bought a horn sight unseen? Not just having never played that particular horn, a la Ebay, but never having played that make and model?

Here's my dilemma. I'm looking for a new flugelhorn. Played a bunch. Based on the ones I have played, the winner is the Conn Vintage 1. It's not perfect, and like any horn there are elements of compromise with it, but it will certainly do the job, and it is substantially better in pretty much all aspects to the one I have now. However, based on comments that I have solicited, it seems likely that the Kanstul Custom would be a better horn.

Problem is, I have not played one. Even if I were to get my hands on one, it uses a different mouthpiece receiver from my present horn (French vs. standard) , so none of my mouthpieces will fit. If I use the included mouthpiece, and discover I don't like the horn, what have I learned? Is it the horn, or the mouthpiece? Similarly, suppose I use my mouthpipe on this horn, and discover I don't like it. Will I have I learned anything?

Do I risk ordering one (with a custom mouthpiece receiver) only to discover it isn't what I want? Or do I risk the opportunity cost of buying something that is a sure thing, but that there might be something better out there.

Comments? Thoughts?

Getzenguy · Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 4:56 pm Post subject:

Well that's a bunch of questions.
What I have done in the past is ordered horns I thought I would like from the mail order side of stores, WW&BW, Dillon, Kessler & Son, Tulsa Band, and now Washington music and have ended up buying from most of them. Doing it this way all I am out is shipping if I find the horn a dog. I have also bought quite a few horns on eBay and have even returned a few of those when I discovered the seller was either uninformed or dishonest (these horns were real dogs). As far as your mp you can get mp's on trial but you might end up with eating the cost of one. It's hard to buy a horn if you live in an area where there aren't many choices. I actually thought of flying to WW&BW to try horns, Southwest fares are pretty low, but I haven't gotten that desperate yet. Oh yes, one other thing I have done is contacted a manufacturer and asked where I could try their horn and they (Getzen) were gracious enough to send one out to a local music store for me to try. Good luck, Mark

_________________
Calicchio R37 Bb
Getzen Renaissance Bb
LA CG Benge Bb
Bach 25A/229 CL
Burbank Benge 1X CML
LA Benge Pic
"The King" Bb Cornet

[ This Message was edited by: Getzenguy on 2004-05-09 19:59 ]

Tom LeCompte · Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 5:26 pm Post subject:

Oh, I've tried lots and lots of horns. But not this one.

Thing is, you can order a Bach 180S 37 bell 25 leadpipe, and if you don't like it, the store can take it back and sell it to someone else. If you order a custom horn, and send it back, you've left them with a white elephant. Even if I could get them to agree to this, it's not exactly fair to punish them for my mistake.

Having a copy my mouthpiece built with the French taper would take a non-trivial amount of time. It looks like a couple months.

jhatpro · Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 6:05 pm Post subject:

I've bought a bunch of horns on eBay. Some I liked a lot and have kept. Others didn't play as well as I'd hoped, so I did what I could to improve them (stripped old lacquer, added new corks, felts, etc.) without spending a lot of dough and put them back on eBay with an honest, detailed description and a good photo. I've never lost money and, in the process, learned a lot about horns.
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

Getzenguy · Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 6:18 pm Post subject:

Hey does anyone know how to delete posts? I must have double clicked on the submit button and now there are two.

[ This Message was edited by: Getzenguy on 2004-05-09 22:31 ]

Getzenguy · Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 6:19 pm Post subject:

Well you're right, the mp sounds like a problem. In my case Getzen offered to send a horn out at their expense and all the dealer stood to lose was shipping back if I did not like it. Kanstul might be willing to do the same, they have been quite approachable. Mark
_________________
Calicchio Studio 2
Duda modified Besson Meha
Getzen 3850S cornet

mheffernen5 · Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 2:02 pm Post subject:

You know funny I am trying to do just what you are talking about. Is the Getzen Eterna a good model to look for or is the Bach Strad a better choice via E-Bay.

jhatpro · Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 2:29 pm Post subject:

Both good brands but which might be the better choice on eBay depends a lot on the wear and tear on each. Ask the seller lots of questions, look over his/her feedback, and scrutinize the photo(s) carefully. Good luck!
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

Tom LeCompte · Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 4:59 pm Post subject:

Getzenguy,

The problem with the plan of having Kanstul ship me one is the same as having a dealer ship me one. A Kanstul CCF925 with a standard mouthpiece receiver apparently doesn't exist at the moment, although it could be made to exist. So we still have the white elephant problem, only it moves from the retailer to the manufacturer.

Cheers,

Tom

_dcstep · Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 5:11 pm Post subject:

The Kanstul is a great horn Tom; however, I don't think it's what you said your were looking for. It's from the dark tone school, not the classic, light tone. The Shew was too bright for your taste, so it's either a V1 or one of the French makes.

The Kanstuls are great, but I just don't think they meet your criteria.

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

Tom LeCompte · Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 5:27 pm Post subject:

Dave,

You're probably thinking of the Signature, which certainly is darker and more trombone-y than I want. I am thinking of the lighter Custom.

Cheers,

Tom

_dcstep · Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 6:18 pm Post subject:

Well, the one I played had a copper bell and was dark-toned. Make sure you get yellow brass. (I've played the Custom and Signature).

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

Tom LeCompte · Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 6:47 pm Post subject:

And therein lies the problem - "bright" and "dark" mean different things to different people; without playing a horn myself, I'm forced to go by people's descriptions of the sound.