Upper lip pressure

limits_unknown · Regular Member Joined: 10 Nov 2001 Posts: 93

I just got back from a week-long music institute and after hours and hours of playing I've always come across the same problem. I use too much pressure on my top lip. There's always a ring there, sometimes it will be darker than other times. It really became a pesky problem because in my school's brass quintet I had to switch to second part because I didnt have enough endurance to play 5 pieces consistently and hit every note. Are there any exercises that will help release upper lip pressure. I'm really bent on fixing this so I can get my 1st Trumpet parts back. If anyone can provide advice, I'll greatly appreciate it.

Thanks

jhatpro · Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2002 6:40 pm Post subject:

you might try adjusting your left-hand grip. some teachers suggest simply letting the horn "hang" on your hand. or your can hold more with the ends of your fingers than with the whole hand. whatever it takes to reduce the tendency to jam the horn into your face. if you've ever noticed alan chez, the letterman show trumpet player. he seems to be balancing his horn on the fingertips of his left hand. kind of an extreme grip, but the guy screams.
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_Don Herman · Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2002 11:00 pm Post subject:

Read some of the other posts about reducing pressure -- many, many ideas for you to try. For starters, try listening to Maurice Andre and strive for that same soft, light sound in your playing. Also, if you haven't a teacher, it might be a good idea to find a good one if at all possible for at least a quick check up to make sure there's no physical problem. Caruso, and lots of soft practice can help, along with concentrating on pushing the horn away from your face when playing. Play a nice soft G in the staff, or low C, as gently as you can, and notice how little pressure there is. Try for the same feel up high. And, of course, blow more air so the air does the work and not your chops!

You'll get lots of advice, but hopefully jhatpro and I can get the ball rolling for you.

HTH - Don
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trumpetteacher1 · Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2002 7:50 am Post subject:

"Are there any exercises that will help release upper lip pressure?"

You can simply attempt to reduce the top lip pressure, and hope the lips respond and form in a way that will keep your embouchure functioning. But in my opinion, that's a tough road that tends to create a whole new set of complex problems.

It is likely that you are using too much top lip pressure because of your particular embouchure setup. In other words, the pressure distribution is an effect rather than a cause.

The most reliable way I've found to reduce inappropriate mouthpiece pressure and increase endurance is to change to a more rolled in lip position.

This approach was outlined by Armando Ghitalla back in the late 1980's, and is similar - in part - to the approach in my book, The Balanced Embouchure.

More details about Ghitalla will soon be available on my website.

Jeff Smiley
http://www.trumpetteacher.net

pedaltonekid · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1711

I wouldn't generally recommend a major embouchere change, but make sure that the top of the rim is above the red part of your lip. Also focusing on putting more pressure on the bottom lip will naturally reduce the pressure on the top lip. Make sure that you don't overdue this, as you will want to play with only enough pressure to seal the lips to the mouthpiece. This does increase as you ascend into the upper register, but should always be approached delicately.

For exercises, try the Irons or Caruso. Hickman also has some nice endurance exercises.
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Emb_Enh · Veteran Member Joined: 29 Oct 2002 Posts: 455

Some pressure is essential for a variety of reasons...make sure YOU are in control of IT....it's an important matter as to how in YOUR game, can you afford to employ it safely / wisely!!

Let's talk about Mpc. pressure ....

Open aperture players use this liberally and the effect, is as if you squashed a donut ring flatter..

..the hole in the centre gets more closed but at the expense of compromising the donut ring shape. [lip flesh - embouchure]

It would be much easier using the same amount of dough [lip flesh] to make a smaller donut by manufacturing a donut with a smaller hole in it.

Same dough / smaller hole / more pudgy donut....

Same lip flesh / smaller aperture / more pucker for endurance...

You quite often find that successful "high noters" use relatively small mpc's and STILL can blow away a band with a big sound...why? ...this is because the buzz point is now a lot smaller. [smaller donut and hole!!]...and they are MUCH more effciently using what they've naturally got!!!

In using the above tension mentioned, plus the mpc pressure we just talked about, the total effect is that the donut is squashed totally flat and there is NO HOLE!!!

NO HOLE = NO SOUND!!

Just don't squash that donut SO much that the jam leaks out....

....that would never happen?........it already has with some!!!

Compression is lip pushing against lip to resist the air thereby closing up the aperture a little. It is desirable to use bottom lip against top lip compression as you have the lower jaw to use for support.

Lip curl moves the stiffer portion of the lip into the vibration position and it adds a one way valve effect with the fleshy part that is rolled in. Imagine your lips "without"
lip curl ....like this...
I
I

Now imagine with lip curl your lips like this..... a swing door effect.

)
)

...the air blown this way >>>> through the above curled lips will aid in closing off the aperture a little more thereby aiding in keeping a closed lip postion over a given period of time. Try doing this with your hands for a better visual effect!

Using....

33% LIP CURL

33% COMPRESSION

33% TENSION

33+ 33+ 33 = AIR GOING NOWAIR!!! : )

That's why you can't use all three, the total combination is too much....

SO I'm not talking an embouchure change. It is using your old embouchure.

However it is getting you to rethink the degree to which you already use of the above formula.

I guarantee you use TOO much mpc pressure already in ALL registers

...WE ALL DO!!!

WE HAVE TO ASSUME THAT YOUR TEETH ALIGNMENT WHEN IN A NORMAL PLAYING POSITION IS MOSTLY ALIGNED EVENLY IN THE TEST TO FOLLOW.

OUT OF KILTER EITHER WAY BY A DEGREE WON'T UPSET THE TEST TO FOLLOW THAT MUCH, PROVIDED AS ALWAYS THE EXTREMETIES OF JAW POSITION ARE AT A MINIMUM.

Try this little test.....

1. Free lip buzz a second line G, and, roll a pencil slowly down from under your nose until it comes into contact with your Top lip. [note what happens to the buzz]

2. Next buzz the second line G again and whilst doing so roll the pencil up from the chin until it it comes into contact with your lower lip [note what happens]

A number of scenarios are possible.....

.....there are a number of known 'people variations'...
[and some unknown I've no doubt]

Mostly......

1. the top lip is the vibrator [bottom lip/jaw compression] -the commonest form.

2. the bottom lip is the vibrator [top lip compression ] -not very unusual, however as the top jaw is fixed, the top lip compression is achieved [in my opinion] by top lip tissue compression [not much]...and or lip stretch / facial / corner compression [contortion.]

3. Bottom and top lip vibration [Ideal]

...you would think would'nt you that number 3 would be the most desirable and it is
I suppose...but...it is only a small [but nonetheless significant] part of the 'chops set up'... you have to consider amongst many things, TENSION [facial / corner / compression or lip curl] mentioned above, as it's all linked up....

A Strobosopic Analysis of Lip Function by Robert D. Weast [1962] and amongst the proportion of trumpet players who took part it was found that a very high percentage [if not all] of them had the top lip as the primary vibrator.

MY WHOLE POINT TO THE ABOVE IS THIS.....

FIND WHICH IS YOUR PRIMARY VIBRATOR AND TRY AND KEEP A MIND TO MINIMISING THE PRESSURE ON THAT PARTICULAR LIP[S]!!!!!

Which lip do you consider to be YOUR primary vibrator...

TOP / BOTTOM / BOTH EQUALLY?

STOP SQUASHING IT / THEM......

There is a cure for this;

Lip Buzz (no mouthpiece) 15 minutes a day.

Or....

Put a pencil between your lips and push the lips together. The lips
should hold the pencil straight out for 3-4 minutes a day. The muscles
that really start burning are the ones you use to play high.

Or...

Work on soft playing. So soft that you almost can NOT hear it. That will
help you learn to control a small lip aperture for playing high.

You may want to try the mpc pressure device available from amongst others Osmun music [USA] ...beware that the device extends the playing length of the trumpet when added so you need to take into account a pitch variation. I would'nt recommend it for prolonged usage, but it is a useful personal pressure indicator.

Exceptions to these Principles......

There will be people who contradict these principles, however their method of achieving their success may be SO specific to their individual physical makeup and/or highly individualised routine, that it may be impossible for another player to achieve the same results without the EXACT same circumstances / physiology [same teeth / oral cavity etc..]

REMEMBER.......

AIR + RELAXATION = FRIEND // ....EXAGERRATION = FOE (Don Jacoby)

DON'T EXAGGERATE YOUR ADJUSTMENTS TOO FAR!!!

LET THE SOUND BE YOUR GUIDE!!!

RELAX...ENJOY THE PUZZLE!!!

I hope this has given you some food for thought.....

Roddy o-iii<O
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"E M B O U C H U R E___E N H A N C E M E N T"
BOOK 1 also... BOOK 2 + demo CD

[Self Analysis and Diagnostic Trumpet Method]

limits_unknown · Regular Member Joined: 10 Nov 2001 Posts: 93

Thanks for all the info guys, and Roddy, I think all that stuff you just posted is basically what is said in The Balanced Emboucher... I was just reading through it

Emb_Enh · Veteran Member Joined: 29 Oct 2002 Posts: 455

Funny...I did'nt see the "donut reference"...or the "pressure test"..or a whole bunch of the other stuff in the freebie book I got..

..it does mention the lips being the primary valve which controls the air pressure of the entire system...however I thought that to be the GLOTTIS....It also promotes a strong lip center...my theories promote a soft center with strong corners....hmmm

Still...if you've found solace somehow...at least your back on track eh?

Keepa blowin!

Roddy o-iii<O
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"E M B O U C H U R E___E N H A N C E M E N T"
BOOK 1 also... BOOK 2 + demo CD

[Self Analysis and Diagnostic Trumpet Method]

trumpetteacher1 · Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2002 12:31 pm Post subject:

Certainly, there are no donuts in my book!

A point of clarification to those who have emailed me about this post: The "freebie book" that Roddy refers to was free only to him. A friend of his in the US paid for the book on his behalf, and had me ship it to the UK.

Jeff Smiley
http://www.trumpetteacher.net

DSR · Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2002 6:02 pm Post subject:

One of Donald S. Reinhardt's exercises in his daily trio of calisthetics was the jaw retention drill. The drill is used to strengthen the jaw so that it can protrude slightly as one ascends and take pressure off of the top lip. Too much top lip pressure will destroy endurance. (The bottom lip should take most of the playing burden) Many of Reinhardt's students had the same top lip pressure problem as yourself, and within weeks to months of performing the drill on a daily basis had nearly eliminated it. (No matter what physical playing type they were)

The jaw retention drill is this: With your lower lip membrane rolled slightly in and over the bottom teeth protrude the jaw as far as possible and hold until you need to stop (prior to straining your jaw.) and exhale explosively. Rest...then repeat. Do this for no more than 4-5 minutes a day! And never tolerate strain or pain!

After a while you will notice that keeping weight off of the top lip is not as difficult as it was before.

limits_unknown · Regular Member Joined: 10 Nov 2001 Posts: 93

Argh, I'm having to write this a second time because I accidently hit the Back button...

Anyways, thanks for the info guys. I'll try the jaw exercise, DRT. I did one after reading your post and it seems like it would help relieve pressure, because I have a slight overhang from my top to bottom jaw.

I also found the Roll-Out 4 exercise in The Balanced Emboucher very helpful. It help me realise that it is possible to play high w/ little pressure. I was able to work up to a high C using the same double-pedal C feel. Which brings me to a quick side-question for Jeff: How much of the Roll-Out #4 exercise should I be able to play before continuing on to the Roll-In excercises?

Thanks

trumpetteacher1 · Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2002 3:02 pm Post subject:

Limits,

Could you email me about this?

Thanks!

Jeff
trumpetteacher1@aol.com