Dents, Crinckles, and Buckles ... Oh My?

Billy Car · Last edited by Billy Car on Fri Nov 12, 2004 6:52 am; edited 1 time in total

I am trying out a new Kanstul 1525 flugelhorn, that evi(dent)ly recieved some rough treatment ...

It has been repaired, and looks pretty good, and sounds good to me ...

Does denting and buckling of a bell, then repaired professionally, affect the tone quality? I have nothing to compare it to (say an undamaged one of the same make and model).

Any comments about the physics of it all? Is all that is necessary is that the shape of the bell be restored?

Other insights welcomed!
_________________
Kanstul 1525 Signature Flugelhorn
Yamaha motif es8
QS 2002 Dual 1GHz
Sibelius * Live * Reason
artsite:http://mysite.verizon.net/moonstoneartstudio/

mototrmpt · Veteran Member Joined: 22 May 2004 Posts: 186

If it sounds good or great, who cares what it looks like. If you're getting the horn for a good price, go for it.

If you're getting the horn for a great price, send it back to Kanstul and he can get it looking as good as new for a pretty affordable price.

If I remember correctly, they had to bend the metal shape the horn in the first place.

Just my $0.02

-Lance

cjdjazztpt · Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2004 11:44 pm Post subject:

_Don Herman · Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 6:29 am Post subject: Re: Dents and Buckles, Oh My?

Billy Car · Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:01 am Post subject:

"If you've found a match, why start off trying to change him/her? (Now I'll get in trouble... ) " ...

It's a him ...

_________________
Kanstul 1525 Signature Flugelhorn
Yamaha motif es8
QS 2002 Dual 1GHz
Sibelius * Live * Reason
artsite:http://mysite.verizon.net/moonstoneartstudio/

Bruce Lee · Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:15 am Post subject:

Copper is a "very" soft metal, and as a result it is much more susceptible to damage. The good news is that because it is soft, it is easier to repair. As long as you are careful with it, you won't have a problem. I would higly recommend that it is kept in a very protective case... one that cradles the horn nicely, doesn't allow it to move around, and at the same time isn't too tight of a "fit". People have creased their copper bell flugels by simply closing the case on them... so, take care to be certain that it is seated properly in the case, prior to closing it.
Good luck with the horn!

Best always,
Bruce
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so55 · Veteran Member Joined: 19 Aug 2004 Posts: 219

The response of a damaged-repaired horn will always be different than that of an undamaged original one. This difference will be negligible if and only if the repair is done by highly skilled people. Otherwise you may receive a dead horn as happened to me once.

Billy Car · Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:44 pm Post subject:

I believe this Kanstul sounds like it is supposed to sound ... especially with the DW 2F (deep) mouthpiece I just received ...

As a Besson euphonium player, I'm familiar with mellow sounds, so I believe I feel that things are right ... just need to better train my armbachure (sp?) and breathing ... having Chase Sanborn's books ought to help ...

It came with the "deluxe Kanstul" / "gladstone" case, and it will offer the protection necessary for a copper bell horn; although, the case is so aesthetically pleasing, that it sort of beckons someone to steal it ...

I'm leaning towards keeping it, and perhaps letting Kanstul take a look to see if anything needs to be done ... just for my piece of mind ...

Such a beautiful instrument to look at as well ... especially with the gold plated mouthpiece ...

Grateful for All Your Reponses ... Now, Let's Go Make Some Joyful Noise

_________________
Kanstul 1525 Signature Flugelhorn
Yamaha motif es8
QS 2002 Dual 1GHz
Sibelius * Live * Reason
artsite:http://mysite.verizon.net/moonstoneartstudio/

swingintrpt · Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 1:17 am Post subject:

Back in the good ol' days before (I want to say about 10 years ago? If anyone out there remembers exactly when, let me know) someone asked Wynton about a dent in the bell of his D trumpet. Wynton looked at his horn, and asked the interviewer "Well, does it sound good?" When he responded in the affirmative, Wyton asked "Well, then why would I want to change it?"

Might have the words wrong, but the idea's the same. I know SOMEONE out there was actually present for this legendary exchange. Maybe you could clue is in to the details?

Long story longer: If it plays like you want it to, and sounds like the music wants you to, just put a mouthpiece on it and sing.
_________________
RJM
Examining the difference between
music and Music.

Billy Car · Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 10:19 am Post subject:

hmmm ... probably still thinking too much ...

wondering about the "overtones" someone mentionned above ... makes sense that something is affected by a damaged bell ... it does vibrate, and when damaged, wouldn't vibrate with the same motion ...

since I'm having such a "brain drain" problem, thinking about the "damage", perhaps returning it, is the best solution, for me ...

any final thoughts?
_________________
Kanstul 1525 Signature Flugelhorn
Yamaha motif es8
QS 2002 Dual 1GHz
Sibelius * Live * Reason
artsite:http://mysite.verizon.net/moonstoneartstudio/

swingintrpt · Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 10:36 am Post subject:

Well, if you decide to return it, (I assume you mean exchange...?) make sure you can play the replacement before everything's finalized. Every horn plays a little differently, even those made by Kanstul. If a horn plays and sounds great, why would you want to play something that doesn't play or sound as well? Yes, that's my final answer

_________________
RJM
Examining the difference between
music and Music.

Billy Car · Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2004 6:01 am Post subject:

I believe I have decided to keep this one ... it really plays well, and all I need to do is work on the embouchure, and I'll be dazling my audiences in no time ...

I began thinking about 4-valve flugels, and since Courtois is currently playing hard to get (their new 156R, ???EUROs???), I think I'll stick with the Kanstul Signature 3-valve, and learn to play it well ...

Thanks for your responses, both on and off-line ...

_________________
Kanstul 1525 Signature Flugelhorn
Yamaha motif es8
QS 2002 Dual 1GHz
Sibelius * Live * Reason
artsite:http://mysite.verizon.net/moonstoneartstudio/

Billy Car · Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 4:43 pm Post subject:

As it turns out, I have gone back on my previous decision, and decided to return the injured horn ...

kept thinking the bell will not vibrate properly ... I have also decided to order a new one from the best priced dealer ...

suggestions welcomed ... about cases as well ...

I'm sure the horn will find an appreciative owner ...

Feeling a bit blue about it all, too ... maybe its the flu ...

_________________
Kanstul 1525 Signature Flugelhorn
Yamaha motif es8
QS 2002 Dual 1GHz
Sibelius * Live * Reason
artsite:http://mysite.verizon.net/moonstoneartstudio/