Going from a Trumpet to a Cornet

trumpet1 · Veteran Member Joined: 07 Jun 2002 Posts: 218

Just wondering, what's the different embouchure/techniques stuff when switching...?

vivace · Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2002 11:29 am Post subject:

depends... is it a trumpet rim mouthpiece or an old fasioned cookie cutter mp?
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"All music is folk music. I ain't never heard no horse sing no song." - Louis Armstrong

pfrank · Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2002 12:04 pm Post subject:

I go back and forth from trumpet to cornet all night long (rehearsal or gig). Putting the difference into words is difficult, but the feel follows the function. Cornets are different from each other (like long vs short) and the mouthpiece used can change the feel quite a bit. Generally, the cornet will blow more similar to a fluglehorn if you are using a deep rounded-off V cup large throat (18-24)(like the Curry DC and Vintace, the Wicks, the Laskey DB, the Sparx etc) which is designed to play like the old cornet mps cept for a nicer rim...and a cornet with a stock Bach type mp will feel and sound more like a trumpet.
Cornet generally slots better than trumpet (the notes are more distinct from each other). Because of this, you can be more fancy or display more technique on cornet, but the main difference is that the sound center is alot closer to your head. My cornet (a Bach 300)(a wonderful horn) sounds more "classical" or "sweet" when played loud, where as the trumpet has a cutting edge or sizzle played loud. So if I am playing a "singing" part I use cornet, if I need to throw burrning spears, I use trumpet. For softer playing, the trumpet is darker with a bigger, more mature character. The cornet is pretty or "luminous" when played softly. Does that make sense?
What can I say? You gotta try it for yourself.

[ This Message was edited by: pfrank on 2002-07-18 15:07 ]

pedaltonekid · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1711

I switch back and forth all of the time. I do not really pay that much attention to embouchere difference (consciously anyway), but focus mainly on getting the sound I want. The cornet is more lyrical/mellow and the trumpet is more brilliant/piercing. By focusing on the sound I want, the embouchere seems to adjust naturally. It does help to practice both instruments though so that you can develop the sound you want on each horn.
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Mr. Stomvi · Heavyweight Member Joined: 01 Apr 2002 Posts: 1062

I also switch back and forth every day between cornet and trumpet. This has really helped my playing. I once asked my trumpet prof. (I'm 46 and have a trumpet prof.) which was easier to play the classical technical cornet literature (i.e. Arbans, Clarke, Petit, etc.) on - a cornet or trumpet. He said that it depends, which kinda confused me at the time. Now that I have put quite a bit of time on both horns I see why he said that.

If one plays the cornet (I am playing a Schilke A2 at the moment) with a regular cornet mouthpiece (Bach semi shallow type cup) to produce a trumpet like sound then the cornet is infinitely easier to play than the trumpet for technical parts where there is a lot of fast articulation. But - if you use a deep V, large cup type cornet mouthpiece for that turn of the century sound then the cornet is way, way harder then the trumpet IMHO. Range usually suffers as well as crisp articulation. But god I love that tone quality.

Going from my normal cornet mouthpiece (Wick 2BW - very large and very deep) to my trumpet with a Bach 1.5 C type of mouthpiece - the trumpet piece feels like a super shallow piccolo mouthpiece and articulation becomes way, way easier, faster and crisper. Playing the deep V cornet mouthpiece really strengthens the chops and my range has really gone up. My triple tongueing has also become a lot stronger and I have greater endurance as the bore size on the cornet mouthpiece is huge.

Seth Moore

[ This Message was edited by: Mr. Stomvi on 2002-07-30 03:18 ]

davidquinlan · Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2002 8:31 am Post subject:

I play Eb Soprano Cornet regularly and can switch between it and Bb Trumpet without too much problem.
I use a schilke 15a4 MP on the Eb cornet (also when playing piccolo) and a schilke 16 mp on Bb trumpet.
My problem is switching to play Bb cornet! I currently use a Dennis Wick 3B Heavy Top.. but I find playing the Bb cornet such a "drain" on my resources

i.e. the stamina disappears, range is limited (which is surprising given my Bb trumpet and Eb Cornet range)

I suspect the trouble lies in my choice of Bb Cornet mouthpiece.

Can anyone recommend a schilke cornet Mp that has a rim similar to say the 16, but has a more V shaped cup? I do have a 16 for cornet but when I use it, it sounds too trumpety, which doesn't go down well in the british brass band scene!!!
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David Quinlan

pfrank · Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2002 9:08 am Post subject:

I don't believe Schilke has a mp like that. This trend in cornet playing to go back to the older style V mps is recient, so the companies that are developing new products are the way to go. Schilke and Bach stand pat on their older technology...

I'd recommend a Curry DeepCornet or VintageCornet (I'm trying to sell a 1 1/4 DC now...)(I down-sized a little)(the VC is Very deep with a very wide throat the DC is deeper than a Bach B or no letter, but not AS deep as a flugalhorn or Wick MP and has a 24 throat) or a Laskey DB. I now use the Laskey 68DB for solo cornet work, although I'm thinking of trying the 70DB which has a narrower rim. The DB has a deep cup and a 24 throat and is the best for articulation I've tried. For twice the money as these two, there is the Sparx mp which Northern Brass carries, but I haven't tried it. Not while the Curry, Laskey and Wick do the job. All of these mps are darker sounding than the typical C trumpet cup, and take more strength to play high on, but the tone is so beautiful it's worth it.

I also use a Bach 1.5c opened to a 24 drill when I need to sound like a bright cornet for dixiland type section parts. But in recording or at home practice, it's always the deep ones. Now that it's summer and the windows are open, I'd rather please myself as well as the neighborhood with that mellow sound.

[ This Message was edited by: pfrank on 2002-07-31 12:17 ]

KevinInGeorgia · Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2002 9:57 am Post subject:

On the Topic Of Trumpet to Cornet, I am about to start playing Cornet. I have ordered a Wick 2, ( Yes I know its huge but I use to play on a Stork1) I was wondering has anyone played on Stork Cornet mouthpieces? All my trumpet work is done on the Stork 2 Series, 2B or 2C+ for Bb & C, & 2P for Piccolo.. I love the Stork Rim but I want a TRUE/Vintage Cornet sound. Guess I could have John Stork cutom make me a Cornet Mouthpiece.

Thanks,
Kevin

ZeroMan · Heavyweight Member Joined: 21 Jul 2002 Posts: 1112

Just ask him to make a flügelhorn mouthpiece with a cornet shank and the same rim size as your Stork trumpet mouthpieces. It will have to be special ordered (of course) and I guess you will be charged over $70 for it.

pfrank · Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2002 11:02 am Post subject:

The Wick 2 is WAY deep, but the Wick 2B is more reasonable... (Tim Curry jokingly called it a fluglehorn mp) still deeper than the other brands, but not like blowing into unrestricted space...
I've been wondering about Stork too because I like the rim, but they don't (yet) market a cornet V cup. The Stork C is somewhat v shaped, but not deep enough, and the standard 27 drill is out of the question (IMHO). Let us know what you wind up with.