Horn Bell pointing at the floor?

[trjeam]

I have seen many orchestral trumpeter's play in concerts and I have noticed that most of them always have the bell facing towards the floor. Why is this?? Is it a technique that they use or something?

I have always been told to point the trumpet bell up. In matter of fact I've been told that when you do that it's like playing towards the floor and your sound doesn't project.

So why do they point the bell towards the floor?
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[johntpt]

Interesting topic. Most orchestral players do seem to point down, some more than others. Tommy Stevens REALLY pointed down.

This may have something to do with blending the sound. If the trumpet is horizontal the sound will be more direct, but if the sound first deflects off the floor it will blend more with the rest of the orchestra. I usually point somewhat down and only play at a horizontal or above level if the composer asks for "bells up", sometimes for other big solos, or if the conductor really wants it loud.

John Urness

[screamertrumpet]

I've done a lot of legit playing in my days (how old am I now, 15? Wow, time sure does fly). Anyways, I was always told to keep my bell up in jazz, but no one ever said about symphonic/wind ensemble. IMO, I think it's a lot more comfortable just to play "down" when sitting and a little more raised when standing (and really raised when marching...).
It's just my opinion, though...
Trevor

[_Don Herman]

When I play with the Philharmonic, I point down more, too. The reasons are blending (as John said -- a bell over the stand means it's way too easy to overwhelm the rest of the orchestra); and, because I have to see the music somehow, can't move the stand to the side (I usually play to the left of the stand, but the orchestra stage is crowded) and so when sitting down it's easier to read the music over the horn -- which puts the bell down.

FWIW - Don
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[vivace]

If you are not facing the bell directly at the audience, they hear a better tone. MY teach was tellin me about recordings, and that if you don't have a special mic, play sideways to the mic so the soungs goes and not the airy crappy noise that you can hear.


just an idea....


or maybe all the ol timers have bad backs and can't sit up straight... darn arthritus...
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[_Don Herman]

Better tone when playing at the stand? Hmmm... Not in my experience, but I suppose the audience may prefer the more "muted" sound... It does help me hear the other players and stay better in tune, fwiw.

Playing into a mic is a whole nuther topic, which a number of players could probably address. It takes time and practice. Right tone, smooth tonguing, etc. Miles and Maurice Andre come to mind as two players in different styles who really work a mic well. For good sound, the mic should really be further back than most soundmen (persons?) think -- more like 3 to 6 feet (or, 1 to 2 meters) and, as you noted, a hair off axis. Also, of course, using the mic for emphasis, and learning to use it without dinging your bell (or worse) is important.

Neat stuff! - Don
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Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

[Emb_Enh]

trjeam writes>>>
I have noticed that most of them always have the bell facing towards the floor. Why is this??
=============================

I think it's because most of them have been taught a basic Farkas embouchure not requiring the even jaw/teeth alignment of some other methods, which in turn results in the horn angle being more downwards.
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[walter]

[ This Message was edited by: walter on 2002-09-20 09:15 ]

[SHS_Trumpet]

I always point down.
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[redface]

is it not just because the majority of orchestral players are down stream players (i.e when they smile the top teeth come over their bottom teeth). Also in the orchestra you really need to watch the conductor (and sometimes the leader too)- much more than in a big band -pointing the horn down gives you a slightly clearer view of things.

[pitchb]

Well, I was told to always keep my bell up. I did that in a concert once for Symphonic Band. It wasn't good. All of the speculation about blending the sound is absolutely correct. It also mellows players who play too loudly for the setting. The up-bell is good for fanfares, jazz, and I suppose solos, but while playing in a section, the down-bell makes things a lot more pleasent to listen to.

Matt

[Pete]

Usually when a trumpet player tilts the horn downward, it is to relieve any upper lip pressure. Similar in some respects to the Rheinhart pivot. I'm not an expert on the subject. The bottom lip can always take more abuse!

It isn't a bad idea, and you don't have to exagerate the tilt downward to be of help to you. And your sound and endurance are enhanced.

Pete

[mafields627]

Volume control.

If you notice, most players also keep their stands fairly low so they can see the conductor. Thus, if the stand is low, the horn must be pointed lower also in order to see the music.

Most people are lazy. It's easier to hold pointed down than up, a la marching band/jazz band.
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No representation is made that the quality of this post is greater than the quality of that of any other poster. Oh, and get a teacher!

[Erin C]

My band director yells at us trumpets CONSTANTLY to keep our bells up. He's not happy unless they're parallel to the floor in jazz band, or pointing straight at his head in concert band which means UPWARDS. It's bad because I have quite a bit of an overbite which naturally points my bell lower, and the only way I can think of to fix this problem without changing my embouchure is to lean back... and that's hard... anyone else have this problem? He claims he can't hear us even when we're playing loud. Sometimes I just think that's him going deaf, though. Oh well. Any other highschool-ers have hteir teachers yell at them until their bells tilt so far upwards the spit drains back into their mouths???

Erin -iii<
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[dawnfrenzy]

yeah, we get that now and again, but usually its cause the players that point their trumpets down (in high school bands anyway) usually have some playing problem which they dont want every one to hear. As to reading the music, i never really noticed it untill a couple of weeks back, but i read it all sorts of wierd ways, sometimes underneath, sometimes over, sometimes through the gap between my right hand and the valves.... just depends on what i want to sound like and how much room i have.

[walter]

Erin-

Tell your band director that we're not all made alike; our anatomies are different. Having everyone play with bells parallel to the floor is like asking everyone to wear the same size shoes or band uniform.

Arching your back to play with a "level" bell just may exacerbate or lead to some back problems in the future. I practiced chiropractic for more than 20 years, so I have some idea of what I'm talking about.

As for your chops and bell angle: if he/she wants everyone to look alike, she/he will get the best results only from those people who can anatomically accomplish his/her goals for appearance. This director seems more concerned with appearance than performance. What a jerk.

Have the director email me to justify his/her position [no pun intended]. I'd love to hear what warrants such a position.

walter
wsharshon@hotmail.com