Tossing out "airballs"

[Max Reverb]

I think Bugleboy has thrown this term out there. What is anyone's opinion on these. I've been blowing alot of them lately, especially when I get to the Harmonics and then into SLS exercises. I know I shouldn't be concerned because I don't have the problem when I play regular stuff. I am trying to settle into a different mpc. Maybe that's why. I didn't used to on my other mpc.

[sabutin]

What's an "airball"?

S.

[_bugleboy]

airball = you go for the note, but only get air.




[ This Message was edited by: bugleboy on 2002-08-28 12:32 ]

[_Don Herman]

IMHO, they happen because your lips are too far apart. Either bring them closer together at first, or (more likely) you're pressing so hard that there's nothing left to give and they are pinned down so they can't move or vibrate. Relax so your lips can move.

Of course, this is Caruso, so don't think, just do... I tend to temper that sentiment with a little manipulation as needed, like when I miss low on seconds (or whatever) and then reset before trying again for the second pass.

Charly et. al., how firm is the "never reset" rule? E.g., if you've a student who continually "tops out" at the same point on the seconds exercise, do you do anything to help get her/him out of the rut, or assume it will come along eventually? I'm having some success, but notice I've slightly shifted my embouchure to better meet the demands of full range with no reset (a reset to avoid the reset, if you will ). It's a semi-conscious thing; when I wasn't getting over the hump. I tried a slight change, and it seemed to work better. (N.B. I don't reset during the exercise; rather, I changed my setting before starting them, and try to carry the change -- which helps the exercises -- through to my normal playing. It seems to be working.) Not sure if I'm clear on this, but would welcome thought from you CC gurus...

Thanks! - Don
_________________
Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

[sabutin]

Oh.

That's because the lips aren't close enough to each other.

Here's a Carmine analogy on this subject:

(There have been varying opinions as to whether the lips should be touching or not when at rest ...I believe they should be, but just barely... but regardless of whether they are or not, this analogy holds true.)

Picture the swinging doors in an old western movie cafe. If the prop man adjusts them so that they're pressing together too tightly, when the hero makes his entrance, he'll have to force his way throught them. Afterwards, they'll clack together as they swing, ruining the scene.

If they're adjusted so that they're too far apart, when the hero comes through them they'll open too easily, and won't swing in any sequence or relation to one another, again ruining the scene w/their random and uncoordinated movement.

IF, however, the prop man adjusts them JUST right, the slightest touch from the hero will set them to swinging in perfect rhythm, he'll make his entrance, and the scene can continue into the more important stuff.

.

Try this w/long tones...first in the middle and lower registers, then progressively higher. (Carmine often used this idea on a low F# or low C.)

Simply play a long tone at a soft volume...as soft as possible, eventually...using no tongue at all. If the note starts well, good, you're in balance. If not, if it either explodes or goes "phhhhhhh" before the pitch sounds, you are out of balance. Do this a bunch of times, letting whatever happens happen. The "phhhhhhh" sound (by far the most common result) is the time that your lips are searching for the proper balance and relationship to one another,. Given time, the "airball" beginning will disappear.

One way of visualizing the process of breath attacks w/long tones (Or shorter notes as well...even quarter notes are just relatively short long tones, really. It isn't until you get to 8th notes at about metronome marking 120 that this picture begins to change.) is to think of them as the sound "pAAAAHHHHHHap". The "p"s at the beginning and end are soft "p"s rather than explosive ones, then the air sustains the note for however long it continues; there's a short deceleration of air, and the lips return to the (relaxed) "p" position, in the proper position for the next note.

Make sure you're not pressing your lips together too hard...the first cafe doors example...so that there's an explosion of air in order to overcome the unnecessary resistance.

Make sure they're not too far apart...the second cafe doors...so that the attack doesn't sound like "phhhhhhhhh".

Like Goldilocks...y'gotta find the "just right" setting. That is the most valuable function of breath attack exercises in general.

Later...

S.

[_bugleboy]

Don,

I'm a little unclear about what you're getting at here. Maybe you could describe in more detail how you are practicing these exercises.

1. "........and then reset before trying again for the second pass."
2. "how firm is the "never reset" rule?"
3. "It's a semi-conscious thing; when I wasn't getting over the hump. I tried a slight change, and it seemed to work better."

[sabutin]

Don asked:
E.g., if you've a student who continually "tops out" at the same point on the seconds exercise, do you do anything to help get her/him out of the rut, or assume it will come along eventually? I'm having some success, but notice I've slightly shifted my embouchure to better meet the demands of full range with no reset (a reset to avoid the reset, if you will ). It's a semi-conscious thing; when I wasn't getting over the hump. I tried a slight change, and it seemed to work better. (N.B. I don't reset during the exercise; rather, I changed my setting before starting them, and try to carry the change -- which helps the exercises -- through to my normal playing. It seems to be working.) Not sure if I'm clear on this, but would welcome thought from you CC gurus...

=============

S. answers:

I don't know about the "guru" part, but...

I've developed some other ways to deal with this problem. You're right, eventually most of us "top out" (and "bottom out" too) at some fairly consistent point. If that point is high or low enough for our purposes, fine, I guess.

I noticed early on in my Carmine work that on the other side of any range limit (up or down) there seemed to be a fairly different setting that gave limited but powerful results. After a loooong while (say fifteen years…) I decided to see if I could develop those settings and bring them back up and down into my main ranges as well.

After another looooong while…I think I’ve got something figured out.

Check out two of my articles on The Online Trombone Journal… "Out of the Case: An Alternate Approach to Embouchure Development, Part 1" at
<http://www.trombone.org/articles/library/outofthecase5-1.asp >and "Out of the Case: An Alternate Approach to Embouchure Development, Part 2" at
<http://www.trombone.org/articles/library/outofthecase5-2.asp>, especially the parts about Bel Canto vocal technique and how its concepts can pertain to brass playing. (Remember, they were written for trombonists. Just transpose up an octave and a whole step to place the ideas on the Bb trumpet.)

In essence, what you have done by "resetting" is make a compromise between the demands of two different ranges. In reality, you have made these compromises ever since you played your first middle G. There is no change…not a note change, not a volume change, not a timbral change…when playing a brass instrument that is not caused by some "change" in the embouchure and air colmn/tongue system. Most of the "changes" are so small as to be unnoticeable, and this is of course how it should be. You just do it.

But, as Lord Buckley so succinctly stated it, "When you get to it…and you cahn’t do it………there you jolly well are, aren’t you."

That’s when the idea of a conscious compromise, eventually made reflexive by practice in good time, can get very interesting.

In my own case I was basically a good tenor trombonist w/ a useful but not spectacular upper range…J. J. Johnson-ish in that sense, about 3 useful octaves, of which only maybe 2 1/2 were really strong…after many years of doing Carmine’s stuff, and I wanted more. I wanted to play bass trombone particularly (tuba too), and I also wanted a real altissimo range on tenor. Say 4 1/2-5 useful octaves on several different horns.

Using Carmine’s techniques coupled w/this chest range/head range/mixed range Bel Canto idea (you have to read the articles to get a clear picture of what I mean) I pretty well achieved this. Simply working up and down from the middle never did this for me, although I do not doubt that it has worked for many others.

Since then, I’ve found it works for others too, and not just on trombone.

In reality, you "reset" for every note…you just can’t see it.

Later…

Sam Burtis

[jgadvert]

I must say, it's quite challenge "not thinking about things" when I'm simultaneously studying a plan that causes you to think. This all seems tough to explain in type and without seeing the setting face to face. But I'll try.
I am using the Smiley studies right now and maybe this is part of Dons thoughts above.

I get air balls but assume that's part of the "contunue the air stream even if no sound comes out" instructions in the text. I too assume that will go away eventually.
On bad days, I have more air balls than usual but assume that will go away also.

But I do wonder if my re-set on the second and third trys at each exercise is bad. I re-roll my lips in bit. Drop the mpc down a bit (I sometimes ride the bottom of the mpc with my lower lip as an anchor, thus having more upper lip in the mpc) and this helps me to continue on further. I try to keep the upper lip rolled in a little(as much as possible to avoid pinning it down) cause I've read and observed that the upper lip does the buzzing.

My thoughts (in a Caruso mind-set) in answering my own questions is that I should always have the same setting, no matter what (no re-set rule) and should always attempt to re-create the same setting on second and third trys. But so many playing theories suggest a "slight" roll in as correct. I can't help but do it cause I've unrolled by the time I get to the end of the first try at the exercises and I play better overall with a little roll in.
It's like re-establishing the best setting for the swinging Cafe doors.

I've probably not explained myself any better.
But its a start!?

[_bugleboy]

If you absolutely must think of what to do with your lips, then "think" of what it takes to buzz and proceed from that point.

Rolling in for a starting point is a Jeff Smiley technique and should not be applied to any Caruso studies. This holds true for any other method or approach. None of them should be mixed with the Caruso stuff.

The reverse doesn't hold true. Practicing Caruso, a la Caruso, WILL enhance your experience with any other method.

The only other approach that I ever heard Caruso say he "approved" of was a statement attributed to John Coffey of Boston. Mr. Coffey was quoted, "Put the horn on your face and blow, kid!" by a mutual student. Carmine said he liked that and anytime I heard him use the expression would always give Mr. Coffey credit.

(John Coffey was known for having great success as a teacher.)

[sabutin]

Actually, John Coffey's famous and oft-repeated line was "Tongue and blow, kid, tongue and blow. That's all there is to it, kid, just tongue and blow."

This was usually followed by "Have a drink, kid, relax."

What a wonderful character he was.

S.

[ This Message was edited by: sabutin on 2002-08-28 14:11 ]

[dales]

For a time I was trying to mix Caruso and Jeff Smiley/Balanced Embouchure (BE) in the same warmup, but I realized recently that it's probably not a good idea to do that.

Yes, they're both sets of calisthentics, but they are done with different mindsets and they have different goals. There's also some pre-setting of the chops for BE calisthentics, but not for Caruso.

I think it's especially hard to switch back and forth between mindsets in the same session, and trying to do so undermines both methods. For that reason, I prefer working these methods in separate practice sessions.

Besides, I learned from my years in the technology industry that "multitasking" does not work for me--I don't want to bring that approach to music practice.

[_Don Herman]

Thanks very much, people! I think the responses, and jgadvert's note, are helping with what I was trying to explain.

Sam, I've read your articles, and will again since it's been a while. I think, from your post, that we're on the same page. I tend to think of a "dynamic embouchure", ala. Clyde Hunt (a trumpet teacher who wrote Sail the Seven C's) and am struggling a bit with how this fits with Caruso. I think the lips need to move, and I think I'm overthinking the "don't change anything" mindset -- that is, the lips have to change as you change pitch and volume, and you have to let it happen rather than trying to hold everything rigidly fixed, if that makes any sense. This is perhaps the one (certainly not the only) part of Caruso that I (and perhaps others) fail to clearly see.

Charly, I'll try again, see if this works... Assume I'm doing the seconds and hitting a range wall (other exercises would work as well, even just the six notes, but this is the one I usually get hung up on).

(1) Play the exercise, hitting air at say, high D or E;

(2) Take horn away and rest a few seconds, thinking (could be the problem!) a bit on what happened;

(3) Tweak embouchure slightly and start again per the Rules, now getting to perhaps F or G over high C.

A similar sequence occurs with the pedal tone exercises, when I fall apart going down. The question is, should I change when I rest, "knowing" what I need to do, or just trying something a little different to see if it helps, to go further, or try to keep everything exactly as it was (which may cause me to just fail at the same point again)?

A follow-on question: sometimes when I air out on seconds, I'll start over for the second try a note or two back (down) and continue on up, rather than exactly the same place (i.e., at the pitch I lost). Is this OK?

Thanks, I'm learning a lot here! - Don
_________________
Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

[jgadvert]

The point I was making is that I pretty much
subconsciously play the way Smiley suggests
(a little roll in, some chin bunching etc.) at this point so the non thought I do bring to Caruso is my "normal" set and blow. I mean, you have to have some way to set your lips before starting the intervals etc...

I just worry that my reset on trys 2 & 3 may be different than the first, thus I'm working a different muscle balance in my chops on 2 & 3. I thought that was Don Herman was getting at(cause I know he follows Smiley as well). I'm sure he'll clarify if I'm wrong.

Dales:

I didn't see a problem mixing the two studies.
I do Caruso twice, over an hour or so(20 minutes on, 20 off, 20 on, 20 off). Then start the Smiley/and other stuff.

Anyway, I'm sure this will work itself out cause I'm slowly seeing improvement.

Ps: I concur with Dons post above. I do the same thing(no offense intended Don..ha ha)

[ This Message was edited by: jgadvert on 2002-08-28 15:27 ]

[PH]

I think sometimes people mistakenly take Carmine's suggestion to not reset the chops during an exercise to mean that you should resist any motion or adjusting that might occur in the course of the exercise.

Subtle embouchure adjustments happen to everybody throughout the course of your calisthenic work. The more out of balance your chops are, the more your unconscious mind will experiment to find a better strategy. Your conscious mind can observe this, but it must not try to fix things by CONSCIOUSLY adjusting the embouchure in the course of any particular exercise or setting. Similarly, your conscious mind can retard your progress by getting in the way of the process and trying to resist change!

Your conscious mind must trust this process and let the unconscious mind do whatever it will. This is why you are told to disregard how it sounds and how it feels. As the embouchure evolves the calisthenics sometimes sound or feel terrible as your unconscious mind experiments with approaches to playing that your conscious mind knows are supposed to be wrong. Don't worry. Your unconscious mind will only make a habit out of strategies that it determines will work.

It honestly doesn't matter how you set or preset your embouchure when you start a new Caruso exercise or resume an interval study for the second setting. If that setting works beter than your normal setting then your unconscious mind will try to replicate that approach on subsequent attempts of the exercise. If it doesn't work the unconscious mind will file that approach in the dustbin of failed strategies and keep searching. Eventually something will work well and through repetition it becomes a habit. You have better achieved balance.

I make the analogy to a basketball player learning to shoot free throws. If you consciously try to fix your shooting form or consciously resist the subtle adjustments to your form that might occur during the course of practice you will end up overly form conscious & self-conscious about HOW you are shooting rather than just learning to shoot. Accuracy can actually go down from such a mechanics based way of learning (Ask Shaq!).

All the conscious mind does during calisthenic practice is blow steady, tap the foot, and subdivide. After that you need to just trust and use the force!

[jgadvert]

OK Pat. But then don't you still have the potential to be working slightly different muscles on attemp #1 vs. attempt #2 and #3?

If I understand correctly, then the setting(or re-set) on #2 and #3 is where your balance probably is; right? Cause as Don states, the "tweak" allows you to go further.

BTW: I normally bother Charly with these silly questions directly via email so it's nice to bother you all at once(ha ha). But thanks all, cause I spend valuable time doing this stuff and want to get the maximum benefit.

[PH]

>>OK Pat. But then don't you still have the potential to be working slightly different muscles on attempt #1 vs. attempt #2 and #3?
___________________________________

It doesn't matter if you are working different muscles. Actually you aren't. How many different muscles are there that you could use to play? True, it is a vast number, but it is a finite number. Regardless of where you put the mouthpiece (within reason and limits of decorum) or how you set your chops you will basically be using all the same muscles: lips & facial muscles, tongue, hands, breathing mechanism, etc.

However, different embouchure settings & mouthpiece placement cause the muscular activity to work in a different balance. What you are actually doing is letting your unconscious mind and your body experiment with different strategies. Remember, you aren't forcing this experimentation but you are allowing it to happen if it wants/needs to.               

It sounds to me like you are asking this question based on the widely held misconception that the purpose of Caruso studies is to make the muscles stronger. That happens for sure, but only coincidentally.

The purpose of Caruso's musical calisthenics is to synchronize all muscular activity that is involved in playing the trumpet. As muscles become synchronized and the timing refined, the body (and unconscious mind) discover the minimal amount of muscular activity that is necessary to achieve any particular musical result. When this happens, the various muscle groups achieve balance.
_______________________________
>>If I understand correctly, then the setting(or re-set) on #2 and #3 is where your balance probably is; right? Cause as Don states, the "tweak" allows you to go further.
______________________________________

Maybe so, and maybe not. I can't tell unless I see you play and I might not be able to tell even then. It really doesn't matter. IMHO, that is way too much analysis. Stop it if you know what's good for you.

None of us knows what it is going to feel like to play great until AFTER we are playing great. No one can tell you with any certainly what your embouchure is eventually going to look like. The funny thing is that AFTER I was playing better all the things people had told me about how it feels or what physical things I should do made perfect sense. However (and here is the paradox), it didn't feel anything like what I had expected it to feel.

I don't believe that you can't learn how to play from someone's verbal descriptions or from mechanical analysis and directions (at least I couldn't and neither can most of the students I have worked with). You have to be goal oriented (and in the case of CC calisthenics, that goal is timing and synchronization) and patiently repeat a process that you can trust to lead you to YOUR own perfect balance.

Just put the horn up there and do the exercises. If you want to set the chops in a certain way before you play that is fine, but that would be too much self-consciousness for me personally.

The bottom line is that if you set your chops in a certain way and that produces good results, then over time that will be how your unconscious mind sets your chops up WHEN YOU DON"T THINK ABOUT IT. However, if there is another physical set-up that would produce even more and better fruit, then you might be keeping the calisthenic exercises from leading you to that success.

These exercises will improve your playing relatively quickly, regardless of whether you preset your chops or not. However, they work best and fastest if you do just what the instructions say.

Put the horn on your face. Follow the four rules. Blow steady. Think about timing and little if anything else. Don't abandon your other practice. Rinse and repeat.

[ This Message was edited by: PH on 2002-08-28 16:46 ]

[ This Message was edited by: PH on 2002-08-29 09:34 ]

[_bugleboy]

DH: Assume I'm doing the seconds............. (1) Play the exercise, hitting air at say, high D or E;
(2) Take horn away and rest a few seconds, thinking (could be the problem!) a bit on what happened
(3) Tweak embouchure slightly and start again per the Rules, now getting to perhaps F or G over high C.

CR: What you're saying sounds correct to me, Don.

DH: A similar sequence occurs with the pedal tone exercises, when I fall apart going down.

CR: I wouldn't characterize it as "falling apart." You've just reached how far you can go.

Now the question about the set up of the lips that is in place when you start. This set up is not supposed to represent a frozen, unmoving position of the lips that is to be tested to see how far it can go without anything changing. For example, especially going into the pedal register, the lips are going to get very much changed from the position they were in when you started on the low C (for the chromatic pedal ex.). By the time you get down to the pedal G to double pedal C and below, the mouthpiece usually starts riding up and the lower lip starts rolling out. It wouldn't be uncommon for the mouthpiece to end up just under your nose (below double pedal C) when the notes won't go any lower. This is normal. But you just let it go where it wants to.

Likewise going up from second line G. Carmine used to say to WORK THE LIPS. Lots of things can change. But all of this working of the lips is done within the parameters of the Four Rules. The mouthpiece placement stays with the placement that you started with. While breathing through the nose, tension in the lips and mouthpiece pressure stay where they were when you finished playing the previous note (This is the way Carmine had me do it). You go with this until you just get air, take the horn off for 12-15 seconds and then proceed with the second blow. I would not recommend a third blow without a teacher observing it. This is the workout.

DH: The question is, should I change when I rest,

CR: If you mean should you take the horn away, stretch your lips by opening your mouth wide, etc. Absolutely!

DH: "knowing" what I need to do

CR: With all due respect, you may or may not know what is really in the best interests of your embouchure, and it's probably the latter. I'd put the piece back on after the 15 seconds and just blow. Accept the fact that there is nothing that you can willfully do that is going to compliment or coax this process along. But there are a lot of things that you can do that will derail it and slow it down. This is truly an act of faith for the student.

Do you remember in the third installment of the Indiana Jones movies where Indy reads the directions to take a step into what looks like open space and certain death on the rocks below. It was called something like the "leap of faith" and there was a picture of a man seeming to walk on air to get across this chasm to the opening in the wall on the other side. Indy takes the step, per the directions, and there turns out to be a stone walkway that blends in so perfectly with the walls of the chasm that the walkway was indistinguishable and, for all practical purposes, invisible. This is something like Caruso . There is no way for you to know how this is going to succeed until it does. You are walking in total darkness with only the Four Rules to keep you on a course that will eventually bring you to light.

DH: or just trying something a little different to see if it helps, to go further

CR: Trying to go further as a goal will be self defeating. I went through this for years, as I think a lot of Caruso students do. You will still progress, but not as you would if you'd just stop thinking that there must be something that you can do willfully that will support the process. The only productive thing you can do with your thinking brain is to concenterate on timing. That's where the faith comes in. This is why so many crippled players recovered with Carmine. They had all reached the end of their road and there was no place left to turn. As crazy as the Caruso approach may have seemed, they followed it because they had nothing more to lose. Carmine was the end of the world.

DH: or try to keep everything exactly as it was (which may cause me to just fail at the same point again)?

CR: You havn't failed! You gotta remove that word from the vernacular. When you get as far as you can go (and BTW, E-F over high C is pretty good!) you have exhausted the capability of the setting that you started with, for that day. You have intentionally set out, with some very specific rules that don't particularly lend thenselves to result type accomplishment, to take a particular mouthpiece placement to its limit. Your intent is to take something to its limit ........ not to fail. Where that limit specifically ends up is of no consequence to the success of these exercises.

DH: A follow-on question: sometimes when I air out on seconds, I'll start over for the second try a note or two back (down) and continue on up, rather than exactly the same place (i.e., at the pitch I lost). Is this OK?

CR: Unnecessary.

Regards,

Charly


_________________
Charles Raymond



[ This Message was edited by: bugleboy on 2002-08-28 18:04 ]

[_Don Herman]

That's a simply...words fail... wonderful! post, Charly -- thank you! You, and PH, and now Sam, never fail to increase my understanding, and your latest post is excellent for its information and inspiration.

Coupla' comments:
---
CR: Carmine used to say to WORK THE LIPS.

DH: I think this is perhaps the most important contribution you've made to my understanding of Caruso. In truth, I'd figured this out a while back, from an earlier post you made. I wanted it brought up again simply because I think too many students (myself included) start with the idea that nothing should change, that everything should be fixed rigidly in place. After you blasted that particular idiocy of mine, it became clear with careful reading in MCFB that it's not what he intended.
---
DH: "knowing" what I need to do

CR: With all due respect, you may or may not know what is really in the best interests of your embouchure, and it's probably the latter

DH: Agreed. That's why I put "knowing" in quotes... I like the Indiana Jones example, too!
---
Priceless advice and motivation, Charly!
_________________
Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley