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gregtrum84 Veteran Member
Joined: 17 Jun 2004 Posts: 106 Location: AZ
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Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 4:17 pm Post subject: Breathing and throat/mouth position |
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Hey all,
I've been having some trouble lately with throat tension. I'm trying to blow but I feel restriction in my throat and it seems like the air isn't coming out as efficiently as it could be. I just had a lesson from a vocalist, and she did a lot of work trying to get the resonance of my singing voice up into my nasal passages and head. What I felt, at least initially was my throat open up and the muscles there "let go" of the air. It's a very subtle thing, the difference between talking with your voice placed in the front of your mouth versus letting it slip back into your throat. I found that when I played after my vocal lesson, I found really beautiful resonance and effortless airflow. I've tried to recall that sound and duplicate it, but it's slipped away for now. I'm probably going to have another vocal lesson, but does anyone have any thoughts on how to place your mouth or the relationship between the singing position and the trumpet playing? Any ideas on how I can get my throat to let go of things?
Thanks,
Greg |
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YayPR812 Regular Member
Joined: 21 Feb 2005 Posts: 82 Location: Houston, TX
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Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 11:03 am Post subject: |
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Greg-
Interesting that you would post this question here, in the Chicago School folder! Perhaps this "choked" feeling you have is directly connected to your trumpet playing- as if you have accidentally fused a choked feeling with picking up your trumpet. Something that Barbara Butler does that I think works great is to warm up with double and triple tonguing, right away, in all extreme registers- and then move to lip slurs and flow studies- this really gets the air to move very quickly. Maybe it is more an air movement thing than any physical problem. Take care!
PS How are things at BU? _________________ Carrie Schafer |
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Mzony Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Jan 2002 Posts: 998 Location: Honolulu, HI.
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Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Greg,
Maybe you choked on the asbestos from the lining of the BU walls in the practice room...Joking. I went to BU and loved making fun of the building amongst other things.
Greg, I have two pieces of advice for you in this area...I have had troubles with this too:
1) Listen to your inhale. Are you making any sort of vocalization when you breath...You shouldn't be. Aim for a very deep resonant wind sound (like "HO") as you inhale.
Remember, the trumpet naturally provides a lot of resistance to your air as soon as it hits your mouthpiece and resistance increases with every bump, turn, and edge in your trumpet.
So having as relaxed of a breath as possible is crucial.
2) For the next few days, don't play anything strenuous, loud, or high. Just play quietly. Play Schlossberg, play Clarke, and play Concone, Caffereli, Bordogni etc.
Get used to connecting with your instrument again without force and when you have made that connection again, slowly start to bring that relaxation into louder playing, faster playing, louder playing, and higher playing.
This is what worked for me and I hope it works for you.
Mike
And remember...the TSAI center is just a lecture hall...NOBODY sounds good in there. _________________ Zony |
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gregtrum84 Veteran Member
Joined: 17 Jun 2004 Posts: 106 Location: AZ
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Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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thanks for the input, mzony, always good to hear from a fellow BUer. Carrie, good to hear from you too! It was nice seeing you at NTC, and I hope everything's going well at NWU!
Anybody else have any thoughts? |
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jcopella Regular Member
Joined: 10 Oct 2004 Posts: 29 Location: Orlando, Florida
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Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 12:24 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | It's a very subtle thing, the difference between talking with your voice placed in the front of your mouth versus letting it slip back into your throat. |
I hesitate to post this, because we like to keep our pedagogical schools separate here on the forums, but honestly this is an area where I think some cross-training with a different school of pedagogy might benefit you.
In the Bill Adam approach, what you are describing is called keeping the sound "out front". You are on the right track with working on vowel placement and in consulting a vocal coach. Where I think you are getting hung up is concentrating on the physical mechanics that are taking place and letting your focus slip off of the mental image of the sound you want to produce.
You might pose your question over in the Bill Adam forum, and see what sort of response you get. Seriously. I think you would find that on this topic, the Adam and Chicago schools are 100% in phase.
Anyway, I had the same problem you did, and I'll tell you what has helped me:
1. Constant listening to and emulation of "that sound". Bud certainly had (has) that sound. There is a track on the 1968 Gabrieli recording where there is so much resonance and the vowel is so far forward it practically jumps 12 feet out of the speakers. They're all great, but I think it's track 8 (7?) -- the one that starts with Bud by himself on a first line "E" for B-flat trumpet. In my case, I would listen to recordings of my lessons with Mr. Adam, and try to copy his sound.
2. Mr. Adam had me do 20-30 min. a day of rather simple, 2 or 3 line melodic studies (exercises in the Getchell books). I would sing them first, with a rather obnoxious, nasal quality to my voice (i.e., with LOTS of vowel and very far forward) and then play them on the trumpet, trying to keep that same sound and sense of forward vowel placement. Your voice teacher might not like this, but it has worked for me.
3. Keep at it, keep at it, keep at it. And when it slips away, avoid the temptation to start thinking "what did I do to get it?" (obsessing over mechanics) and instead do whatever it takes to get THAT SOUND back in your head, and then do your best to reproduce it on your horn.
Hope this helps, and I hope I haven't introduced anything that seems too contradictory with the Chicago approach. |
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Don Herman rev2 'Chicago School' Forum Moderator
Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 8951 Location: Monument, CO
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Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 10:16 am Post subject: |
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Well, a few thoughts, fwiwfm:
A simple thing to try is to get a toilet paper roll, empty, and place it inyour mouth. Lean your head back (sit down first!) and feel how open your throat is. It may be a bit overwhelming at first. Try to play with that same feeling. As has been said, start quiet and low -- think gentle, soft sound. Relax your body and gently exhale the tones -- don't force the air out, just let it sigh out like you're fogging a mirror with your breath.
HTH - Don _________________ "After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley |
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